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Gordon Edes Red Sox chat transcript

Monday Dec. 11, 2006
Gordon_EdesHey everyone....Just got back from my Japanese lessons with Curt....I'm not going back, though, until I'm sure I'll be needing them.
Sox_in_FlaHey Gordon ... if the deadline is Thursday, can they negotiate all the way up to Thursday? Or do they have to do the deal earlier because he needs a physical?
Gordon_EdesThere seems to be a difference of opinion on that on, Fla. Sox were of the mind that this thing needs to get done by the 12th, to allow for Matsuzaka to have his physical done. Agent Scott Boras was pretty dismissive about the notion that the physical would impact the timing one way or the other, and that Dice-K could always get his physical done in LA.
ChowdahGordon...I keep hearing about how a deal has to be done because of Japanese honor, Seibu needing the money and the Red Sox not making the bid just to block the Yankees.. However it appears that Scott Boras's $15Mill per year demand is ridiculous... Is this deal going to be done?
Gordon_EdesChowdah, ridiculous is in the eye of the beholder. How do you define ridiculous in a market in which 11-game-winner Gil Meche can be paid $55 million and Jason Marquis, left off the Cardinals' postseason roster, draws $20 million from the Cubs. There's no question that the Sox and Seibu want to get this done, but whether Dice-K has taken a sip of the Boras Koolaid and is willing to sit this one out, that's the big question
Sox_DonHey Gordon ... if the Sox fail to sign Matsuzaka before the deadline, will Scott Boras be able to "post" him himself and essentially make him a free agent?
Gordon_EdesSD, Boras has discussed in theoretical terms a scenario in which he goes back to the team and says, Look, make Dice-K an unrestricted free agent, and we'll pay you. Hard to imagine Bud Selig signing off on that one, which would put the thing in either an arbitrator's lap or a judge's.
hutchIt seems Borat may be trying to challenge the posting system. Do you think Selig is keeping an eye on these proceedings? Would he/could he step in?
Gordon_EdesHutch, was that a typo or a deliberate linkage of Boras with the character who offends everyone in sight? Boras believes the posting system is unfair and penalizes the elite Japanese player more than anyone else. Does he see in Dice-K a Japanese Curt Flood, the man who brought down baseball's reserve system. Boras doesn 't mind making the Sox think he is contemplating just that. And yes, Bud is in regular contact with Sox ownership about the proceedings, but he's not exactly in a position to put pressure on Scott, is he?
KindaHi Gordon, Steve here from red sox nation in Ireland!! 2 questions for you. Firstly, would you not think that Daisuke Matsuzaka is rethinking his selection of Scott Boras as his agent in so far as he seems intent on pitching in the majors, where it seems that Boras is using Matsuzaka as a crusade case against the posting system? Also what influence might the Seibu Lions have in settling this argument (by possibly stressing to Matsuzaka the fact that all parties, bar Boras, want the deal done), as it has been well documented how much they need the posting fee?
Gordon_EdesSteve, always great to hear from the Irish precincts of Sox nation. Pubs should be filling up right about now, no? We have no clue about what Dice-K is thinking, at least not since the Sox first won the posting bid, he met with Sox owners, and spoke fondly of the Red Sox and desire to pitch here. We should get a better sense of what he's thinking tonight, because Boras told the contingent of Japanese reporters attending the winter meetings that he would make Dice-K available then. In the end, of course, the decision is Dice-K's, whether he tells Boras to get a deal done, or decides to play this out and return to Japan. You can be sure Seibu is exerting considerable pressure behind the scenes, but whether it's following on deaf ears remains to be seen.
WesleyNYCGordon, thanks for the chat. Where is the new Sox closer going to come from? Sounds like Gagne's out and anyone decent to be acquired via trade will cost them an arm (or a couple) and leg.
Gordon_EdesWesley, you're not quite ready for the Devern Hansack era, are you? That name has been bandied about internally by the Sox as a guy deserving of a look this spring, but I think the Sox would prefer a little more certainty in the role. Unless Boras (him again) is bluffing and Eric Gagne drops his price, that's not going to happen w/the Sox, who are unwilling to guarantee him $5m or more. If Texas, one of the front-runners, signs Gagne, that could open the door for a deal for Akinori Otsuka, who has told at least one acquaintance he'd love to pitch for the Sox. Rangers are in the market for a CF, so maybe there is a match. Mike Gonzalez of the Pirates is another possibility, but at the winter meetings the word was he was headed to Atlanta in a deal. has been reported that Borass hasn't come back with a counterproposal... why do you think that is and what do you feel is an appropriate salary for Dice-K?
Gordon_EdesNeelyfan, seems a few of you are having trouble typing when it comes to a certain agent. By not making a counteroffer, Scott is putting the squeeze on the Sox to better their original offer, and guessing what it's going to take to get the deal done. This is very high stakes poker, and the Sox, because of Boras' history with Jason Varitek and JD Drew when they were drafted, and more recently with Luke Hochevar, have to think long and hard about calling his bluff.
bjg12 If the Red Sox are not able to work out a contract with Matsuzaka, do you see them getting into a bidding war with the Yankees for Roger Clemens? Also, what do you foresee the Red Sox doing to obtain a closer? Thanks!
Gordon_EdesBjg12, the Rocket is a target whether or not the Sox sign Dice-k, or so I was told before the winter meetings. Now whether that has changed because the Sox did not move Manny remains to be seen, but Roger becomes a huge object of Sox desire if they don't sign Dice-K. But we still don't know if he wants to pitch, if he's willing to leave Houston, and if he's sticking with Pettitte and going back to the Yankees.
Bob_Slate_2If the Red Sox fail to sign Matsuzaka, how would that affect their relationship with Japanese teams in the future?
Gordon_EdesThat's a very good question, Bob. You would think the Sox have engendered a lot of goodwill by the size of their bidding, the fact that Larry Lucchino went to Japan, the dinner with Dice-K at Tom Werner's house. On so many levels, the Sox have seemingly demonstrated good will and a sincere effort to sign Dice-K. Now if it comes out that their offer was an unsubstantial one, they'll take a hit. And obviously not having Dice-K in a Sox uniform will deny them inroads into a market that is potentially very lucrative.
NoahGordon, are all the "talks are dead" reports just posturing that was a foregone conclusion of happening, or is there real reason to believe D-Mat won't be signed?
Gordon_EdesNoah, I think many of assumed that this deal would get done because all parties were motivated to get it done. But if Boras can persuade Dice-K that in two years, he can get him a contract that will pay him $15-20 million a year, or to mount a legal challenge against the posting system, then this isn't all posturing, is it? That's what the Sox are trying to calculate. Boras said he planned to allow Dice-K to speak directly with the Sox in these final days, so maybe they will get a better read on whether he really wants to sign, or is prepared to walk.
mrsmiserNow that it seems like the pitching staff is beginning to come together, are there any prospects for Manny available as well
Gordon_EdesMrsmiser, I guess we can't call this thing dead, but unless someone has a major change of heart, I would expect to see Manny back in a Sox uniform. The Sox basically asked the Dodgers for a combination of three, or in some cases four, of their best seven prospects. The Dodgers balked, and are now likely to turn their attentions to Vernon Wells, who is considerably younger, is much better defensively and might be worth parting with some prospects. Maybe the Padres reconsider, or the Mets jump in late, but i think both of these scenarios are pretty doubtful.
KyleAnd, in your opinion, what is Daisuke Matsuzaka worth? If guys like Ted Lilly and Jason Marquis are getting 10 million and 7 million, isn't D-Mat TECHNICALLY worth what Boras wants?
Gordon_EdesYou could make a very compelling case, Kyle, along those lines, which is precisely what Boras is doing. But the Red Sox would counter with the argument that those guys got their paydays because they are free agents, that service time means something, and the reason they were willing to post as much as they did is precisely because they would have him under their control.
Gordon_Edes... I was just talking to the Sox, and JD drew and Julio Lugo are indeed in town today, undergoing their physicals
Boras__Spoiled_bratHello Gordon- I was wondering why MLB doesn't step in when Boras hasn't even countered the Sox first offer. Doesn't he have to negotiate in "good faith" and do you think Dice-K can even go back to Japan? I mean, that culture is based on honor and he has already said he is leaving....we all know Boras has no soul so I guess that doesn't bother him.
Gordon_EdesBsb, again, in the end, the call is the player's. The agent does the player's bidding, and Dice-K retains the option at any time of instructing his agent to cut the best deal he can, but make a deal.
megbu36What is the real chance of them signing Clemens or is he pretty close to signing with the Yanks because of Pettitte?
Gordon_Edesmegbu, I don't think Clemens is close to signing with anyone yet. He still has to figure out whether he wants to play next year, how much of the season--I can see him doing the half-season thing again--and where. You can be sure, however, that the Sox are engaging in a full-court press, just like they did last year, when Tom Werner made the video and all.
DAfter the posting was won, Theo said the Matsuzaka negotiations will go down to the wire. Everyone seems a little surprised though that the talks are "dead" when isn't just posturing and negotiations tactics in a very high stakes came of chicken?
Gordon_EdesYou may be absolutely 100 percent right, D. With Boras, negotiations always come down to the end. I've never believed the talks were "dead," but what I think has changed is a shift in Sox thinking from there's no way in the end that this deal doesn't get done, to accepting that Boras will not budge and they're willing to invest $20 million a year (between posting bid and salary) in this guy.
Virginia_Soxf_anGordon, isn't Theo worried about the reaction of Red Sox fans if this deal doesn't get done, he'll be booed out of Boston.
Gordon_EdesVirginia, I'm not sure that's how Sox fans will react. I heard the same thing from Bob Lobel last night, but fans here are just as apt to decide Boras is the villain. no?
PrincessHey Gordo, What's the deal with the Sox philosophy on spending. They seem to be just throwing money around instead thinking in terms of value. Examples from a money perspective. Was Renteria that much better O. Cabrera, Was Loretta that much better than Graffanino, and now is Drew that much better than Trot. I don't get it. They seem to spend more money on players that are only a little bit better than current players. They ditched the value system.
Gordon_EdesPrincess, I think the Sox would argue that Drew and Loretta ARE better than Nixon and Graffanino, and have freely admitted they made a mistake on Edgar. I don't see them spending indiscriminately at all--the market has spiked up, of course, but there's a plan being implemented here.
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