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December 15, 2008 Permalink

2008 Greek riots

On the night of Saturday, December 6th, two Special Guards of the Greek police clashed with a small group of young men. The exact details of what took place are still unclear, but it is known that one of the Guards fired three shots, and one of those bullets caused the death of 15-year-old Alexander Grigoropoulos - whether the injury was made by an accidental ricochet or deliberate shot remains to be determined. The two Guards are now in jail awaiting trial, the shooter charged with homicide. This incident sparked an immediate and widespread response in the form of angry demonstrations and riots in many Greek cities that have continued at varying levels to this day - though dimming in intensity recently. Alexander's death appears to have been a catalyst, unleashing widespread Greek anger towards many issues - police mistreatment of protesters, unwelcome education reforms, economic stagnation, government corruption and more. (37 photos total)

A policeman looks toward burning barricades during riots in Athens December 7, 2008. (REUTERS/John Kolesidis)
more photos
This page lists only comments and the first photo for the entry.
To see the entire entry, with all photographs, click here.


1478 comments so far...
1.

Long live to anti-government riots!
I wish americans did this years ago with Bush administration. No offence but I keep hearing from american patriots that from time to time it's vital to overthrow the government, but you actually never do that.

Posted by European December 15, 08 01:02 PM
2.

wow

Posted by Anonymous December 15, 08 01:13 PM
3.

love the green laser treatment... high tech!

Posted by jm December 15, 08 01:13 PM
4.

Cher "European"
May riots consume your world and your country from now until the last ding-dong of doom.


Posted by vanderleun December 15, 08 01:13 PM
5.

I don't like violence, but that means ANY kind of violence. State violence is, by far, much more destructive and evil than this kind of violence. And I don't mean just police violence (this is the last of my concerns, actually). I mean wars, I mean oppressing Third World, I mean oppressing poor people at home, I mean protecting capitalism, protecting banks...

I don't like violence, but this kind of violence is NOTHING compared to State terrorism and capitalism working together.

Hi from Spain.

Posted by KesheR December 15, 08 01:15 PM
6.

@vanderleun: the world is consuming right now, don't you know? States and capitalism are making environment and society unlivable.

Posted by KesheR December 15, 08 01:18 PM
7.

We do routinely overthrow the government here in the U.S. We call them "elections."

Posted by Josh December 15, 08 01:23 PM
8.

RIP Alexandros Grigoropoulos

Posted by f*ckthepolice December 15, 08 01:25 PM
9.

as always, fantastic pics...especially 25, 35 and 37

Posted by denheels December 15, 08 01:28 PM
10.

It's amazing how many protesters (totally legitimate in their actions) and looters (petty thieves mixing in the crowd) shouting against poverty are dressed in the latest (expensive) fashion, with many of the women looking as if they've just got out from the hair salon. In any case, the vandalism had nothing to do with the memory of the kid. Police could have stopped it, but they were never ordered to and so they just watched. The bottom line is that any decent Western government would have resigned under such circumstances, but not Mr. Karamanlis. He adores his chair and he won't leave it even if the whole of Greece burns. Pathetic.

Posted by KD December 15, 08 01:31 PM
11.

Obscene to say the least. Personally I say its time to start using more force against the protesters. What are they fighting for? At this point, nothing. Destroying property such as other peoples cars and shops, city facilities and such is a blatant disregards for authority. It's time to stop being polite and push these people back.

Posted by JMB December 15, 08 01:32 PM
12.

'We do routinely overthrow the government here in the U.S. We call them "elections." '

It's sad American think democrats and republicans are ideologically different. This is obvious when analyzed in another country other than the USA, but I guess propaganda is too strong inside USA.

By the way, governments do not rule a nation. Corporations do. This is again obvious when analyzing bailouts.

Hi from Spain, just another sick capitalist nation full of propaganda...

Posted by KesheR December 15, 08 01:34 PM
13.

the hand with the blood dripping says it all. Capitalism is at its end. The suicidal rope of capitalism is thintening more and more. I guess we're facing a lot more economical, famin related and socio-political riots all over the world the next years...
Strong pictures by the way! as usual...

Posted by flawijn December 15, 08 01:34 PM
14.

To European:
You love anti-government riots . . . until they burn you home or your business or hurt people you love.

Posted by FreedomLover December 15, 08 01:37 PM
15.

Wow, 5 comments in and two Euros have already found a way to loop this incident back to America/capitalism/war...

Stay on point, folks - a Greek child died, apparently for no reason. It's a tragedy.

Have some respect and find another forum for your anti-U.S. rhetoric.

Posted by BigBear December 15, 08 01:38 PM
16.

Wow... that was one of the craziest sets of pictures so far. Keep em coming.

Posted by Loren December 15, 08 01:38 PM
17.

Considering Photos 24 and 25, the Terminator can't be far away...

Posted by Gernot December 15, 08 01:40 PM
18.

This wasn't about the government. This was not a protest. This was mindless demolition of private property for which ordinary citizens had worked hard for years. This was an attempt to kill just like on pic No. 9 above.

And even if the Greek 15-years-old boy did not deserve death, those people on the pictures easily forgot that the boy attacked policemen with molotov coctail which can kill. And if somebody attacks with deadly weapon he must bear the consequences. One of these consequences is likely to be a policeman acting disproportionally due to fear of death.

Btw. it may be the case that the deadly shot was an accident, because ballistic experts found mortar residue on the bullet. But the people on the pictures do not care about the truth. They already decided that experts are lying. They decided not to take the boy's deadly attack into consideration. They decided that the vicious policeman intentionally murdered the most innocent guy on the planet. So let's destroy the living of other people.

Posted by chabba December 15, 08 01:40 PM
19.

All I can say is HOLY CRAP!!! Well that , and the girl in pic #7 and #34 are smokin hot.

Posted by Trev D. December 15, 08 01:41 PM
20.

"Have some respect and find another forum for your anti-U.S. rhetoric."

I think any kind of forum is ok to condemn USA as a terrorist State. It's an important issue, and it must be told. And it is certanly related to greek riots.

Posted by KesheR December 15, 08 01:43 PM
21.

I don't like the police, and I never have, but I'm smart enough to know that while I don't like their job, most of it has to be done. I don't like being stopped and searched by cops just because of how I look, but I like being able to walk down the street without some schmuck taking my wallet just because he's bigger than me. Total anarchy doesn't work and is self-consuming, and always has been.

It’s a tragedy what happened to the boy, and that act needs to be punished, clear. Nobody is above the law, especially the executive, but this shit isn’t about the poor boy any more anyway. Peacefully demonstrating, public outrages, all okay. But setting fire to cars and shops of people who have nothing to do with it, endangering everybody by blocking emergency services and using a tragedy to push your agenda is simply stupid and plays into the hands of the fascists who use this crap to label the Left as dangerous.

“Sticking it to the man” and “taking back the street” with violence doesn’t work, has never worked and will never work. All those people smashing stuff up in Athens who label themselves righteous are nothing but becoming a distortion of the monsters they supposedly fight, and are ultimately do nothing but harm.

Posted by Laughing Man December 15, 08 01:46 PM
22.

Wait, is this Anarchy spring break, or rioting over something meaningful? Too much violence on the part of the youth hurts their case... one photo of a kid with a flower followed by a burning policeman is contradictory.

Posted by Nels Nelson December 15, 08 01:47 PM
23.

@KesheR: "It's sad American think democrats and republicans are ideologically different". +10.
Take a look at who sponsored both McCain and Obama - same corporations.

Posted by ResheK December 15, 08 01:47 PM
24.

chabba - so you're saying KesheR is wrong, and this is not the will of the Greek people overthrowing their government the way Americans should?? Maybe it was his condescending European tone, but he sure had me convinced!

Posted by BigBear December 15, 08 01:48 PM
25.

The policeman should be given a trial in front of a jury of his peers, and if he is guilty then sentence him.

If the Greek government is corrupt, then use lawful processes to put an end to corruption.

As long as there is the rule of law, just laws, and the government answers to the people, there will be peace.

Posted by M Chamberlain December 15, 08 01:49 PM
26.

"And it is certanly related to greek riots."

What does the USA have to do with a Greek kid being killed by a Greek policeman followed by riots by Greek people????

Posted by BigBear December 15, 08 01:54 PM
27.

I myself is a policeofficer in a small european country, I think these images are beautiful and scary on the same time.

No socialism inspired revolution has lead to anything but death, regimes and poverty. Young people, with no understanding of what created the wealth that they enjoi.

Posted by Hans Hansen December 15, 08 01:56 PM
28.

1) some people says violence doesn't work - well I say look at Autumn of Nations - the revolutionary wave in eastern block which coused fall of Soviet union. RIOTs definitely WORK!
2) And yes, riots is about destroying property and ultimately conquering the gov. buildings. As happend in Romania for example during Autumn of Nations. The point is persuade military and police to stand by people, which the romanians managed to do and overthrew communist government. Do you still think riots are pointless? Gov. must fear poeple! Not vice versa.

Posted by European December 15, 08 01:57 PM
29.

The "Halloween" movie theme music popped into my head when I saw #25.

Posted by Michael Myers December 15, 08 02:00 PM
30.

WTF do these people hope to accomplish by yelling at and burning police?

Greeks can vote. Vote out the establishment. There's no king to depose.

The protests here are nonsensical. They will accomplish nothing but extending and increasing pain and suffering.

Anarchy? Communism? The youth clamoring for such things are doing so while enjoying the trappings of capitalism. They have no idea what they have or what they're asking for. Perhaps they'll soon find out.

Posted by Patrick Henry December 15, 08 02:01 PM
31.

I don't understand this violence. What will these destructive actions bring ? What is the aim of a man fighting against a policeman ? It is as stupid as racialists who fight against black people under the pretext that another black guy did something bad.
I don't understand this kind of violence and this gets me angry.
Why comparing the "violence" of capitalism and this violence ?
Is it an explanation ? Is it legitimate for me to break the car of my neighbor when I loose my job ?
You are on the wrong anger when you do this. The same way racialists do. Think and try to understand, instead to overreacting.

Posted by Gallier December 15, 08 02:02 PM
32.

As good as it is to see people take to the streets for a cause with genuine passion the kind of looting and violence seen in Greece over the past week is totally counter-productive. I realise it's only a minority of the protesters who engage in pointless destruction but it garners the majority of the coverage. I could understand people turning their anger on government symbols but travel agents, private cars, etc?

The kind of protests which spark genuine change are those where violence is kept to a minimum and focus is placed on the cause. The recent occupation of the airport in Thailand is a good example. These protests in Greece are riots not change.

Posted by Mark December 15, 08 02:02 PM
33.

Look at photo #28.

These kids are not suffering. They are spoiled brats.

Posted by Patrick Henry December 15, 08 02:03 PM
34.

Debout peuple du monde !!!
Foutons leur sur la gueule à tous ces connards qui nous gouvernent ou qui profitent de leurs statuts pour s'en foutre pleins les poches...
Mais non, je plaisante. Il faut juste dialoguer avec eux... à grands coups de pompes dans le cul et deux doigts dans les yeux !!!!!

Enfin bref, merci pour ces belles photos.....


photos

Posted by Fabien December 15, 08 02:04 PM
35.

How the hell much will it cost to fix all that mess? Idiot rioters like this 'having a bit of fun' only makes things worse for law abiding folk who have to pay to clear up the mess. One day when these kids are having to work and pay for things they'll realise that. But then some people never grow up do they..?

And hooray to comment number 7 from Josh; "We do routinely overthrow the government here in the U.S. We call them "elections."

And to Alan Taylor, I wish you a very Happy Christmas and a Successful New Year. I can sincerely say that The Big Picture is "the" internet site of 2008. Hat's off to you!

Posted by Jon T December 15, 08 02:17 PM
36.

Spoiled brats indeed. I guess this is what the world is coming to. All this fancy talk about freedom and liberty and democracy means nothing if you in the name of "freedom", "liberty" and "democracy" give people the right to riot, destroy property, steal and wound.

I respect the young lad whose untimely death led to this violence. I do not, however, respect the people who are making a mockery of his memory by rioting and distroying everything in their path. Shame on them.

Posted by Erwin December 15, 08 02:23 PM
37.

Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King changed the world without ever resorting to violence.

Posted by Ted December 15, 08 02:27 PM
38.

#16 is nice. A message of peace. Non-violence is the best path.

Posted by Shradha December 15, 08 02:28 PM
39.

I live in greece. The only reason these people are rioting is because they want to. They are using the excuse of rioting against the police to cause mass destruction. They are accomplishing nothing. They are only rioting because they want to. It is sick. I'm waiting for the shopkeepers and bankers to pull out their rifles and start fighting back against the rioters. I bet that would put a stop to the rioting.

Posted by upset Grecian December 15, 08 02:29 PM
40.

Is the guy in 29 sponsored by Nike?

Fantastic news journalism pictures, as always.

Posted by Steve-London December 15, 08 02:29 PM
41.

How can you even comment about what is happening in greece at the moment just by looking at the pictures... without even seeing the pig picture in general. Of course there are elections and you bet that this goverment is going down but the next one will be the same. 2 families have been running greece for the last 30 years. Many of these kids wear the latest fashion clothing and yes they don't suffer from poverty, but police violence, and total corruption in the goverment(s), along with prices going up dramatically in the past years but with wages remaining the same make up for a "no future" generation. They see that. They complain about it in peace. And the answer is violence, policement, & now death. What do you expect?

Posted by Odysseas December 15, 08 02:35 PM
42.

And where is Romania in the in these global economy? People in America can and will riot when we need to. Right now we don't need to. Even with all the bad policies we still control 15 trillion dollars of the world's economy. Other countries are catching up, but changes are being made here to stop that from happening.

Posted by Martin December 15, 08 02:38 PM
43.

Picture 21 says it all. This isn't a reaction to the killing of a youth, it is a desire by a bunch of emotion driven kids that have no sense of history nor life experience. Self absorptive people are taking over society. They demand their way and destroy what others have spent a lifetime building. They don't realize that if they sh*t on their own doorsteps, their house will begin to stink.

Posted by Revcall December 15, 08 02:42 PM
44.

Off topic (sorry) : Will there be a " 2008 Best pictures of TBP" ? Or maybe 12 pictures, one for each month that make 2008 so special.
Thanks for your amazing website. I enjoyed every article.

Posted by Play December 15, 08 02:45 PM
45.

I pray that some day we achieve enough growth in personal and governmental accountability that these riots are as unthinkable as other forms of violent forms of protest.

Posted by Mark December 15, 08 02:49 PM
46.

never underestimate the power of the youth to change the status quo

Posted by medaholic December 15, 08 03:13 PM
47.

I wonder if all of these punks would of rioted if the molotov cocktail Alexandros Grigoropoulos threw killed the two cops. Don't get me wrong, police abusing power should not be tolerated, but citizens abusing cops should not be tolerated equally.

Posted by Mike December 15, 08 03:15 PM
48.

This is absolutely ridiculous and should not be tolerated. I would probably understand the students' cause, but this is the utmost worst way to go about displaying any kind of protest. Not only does it NOT WORK, but it isn't even showing much of their own bravery by torching innocent people's cars and burning policemen who are just doing their F*CKING JOB! Thats f*cking bullsh*t people. Get you sh*t together and don't f*ck around like this, it is dangerous to everybody and just makes you like a selfish, condeded, bastard/bitch that doesn't understand how to oppose the government peacefully. You are holding up your anti-gun signs, yet are throwing molotov cocktails at FIRETRUCKS for christs sakes?!!!!! Where is your sense of peace and respect? It would of been a much bigger thing for you to do to burn yourself in a crowd like that monk did years ago. burning other people isnt only evil, it is plain stupid.

Posted by Matt December 15, 08 03:21 PM
49.

I don't know why greek people cannot demonstrate friendly. I think the police man is punished for all the time, when you image his thoughts what he will have. The violent demos can change nothing. It happend, it's passed! The police man will get his punishment by the judges and he will always be the man, who shot a child! So PLEASE STOP THIS WAR!

Posted by Torsten December 15, 08 03:26 PM
50.

As I understand it (and maybe someone in Greece can confirm it), the riots were started by Anarchists and Communists. It all started by the burning of Christmas trees and ornaments. It was well after that the the young man got killed which only perpetuated the situation. Interesting how Reuters never mentions the back story -- everybody is just a humble "protester."

Look at picture 21 again.

Posted by Jack M December 15, 08 03:34 PM
51.

Hi from Greece,
The site is amazing, eventhough that we where there when these photos were shot. The murder of Alex was just the spark that ignited the whole fire which long know lurked inside everybody's heads. Unfortunately, our country suffers many more than just some riots and looting. Right after the WW2 every political party had its share in corruption and looting peoples money. We were used to this corruption and even played along to survive and evolve. Unless somebody has a political connection or is an offspring of a powerful dad, he/she can't find a job that pays more tha 500-600 euros/month. Most young people are doomed to seek for help and support from their parents until their mid 30s since the money are just not enough. In the meanwhile, they continuously watch the politicians give away bilions of their tax-money to their favorites and getting away with it (in Greece the members of the parliament are émmune to any allegations). It is not much different than some totalitarian regimes in Africa. This is a very dangerous mixture in the society. And it hopefully selfignitted. The media here fail to see the real reasons behind these events not because they are unable, but because they want to shape the common will and smother the whole thing since they are too funded by the governmental advertisment budget. All these destructions are minor compared to what has been stolen from us and to what will follow. I understand that in USA, which also faces a terrible economical crisis, people protest in a much more peaceful manner, but we are facing more fundamental problems. Thanks again for the amazing pictures.

Posted by marinos December 15, 08 03:36 PM
52.

People need not be hungry to march on the street. IN fact it is more honest to fight when you have something than when you have nothing to loose. The government is corrupt. The ellections will only bring another corrupted government. See most of governments around the world. Which of these cares for the people? Instead the government works for multinationals and increase taxes of the poorer while giving money to banks... If elections could change anything they would be declared illegal.
Some stats: 18.5 of young people in Greece are unemployed most of them holding university degrees. 20% of Greek people are under the average poverty level. This level for USA is 33%. Young people are on the streets demonstrating against a corrupt government and police brutality while defending a free education system.system. How do I know? I was on the streets as well protesting. Media are trying to depict people on the streets as hooligans. There are the hooligans of course, but that does not mean the people's cause is not just.


I the

Posted by A Greek December 15, 08 03:39 PM
53.

Greece has a long history of cover-ups for police brutality / killing incidents. Greek police was never democratized after the fall of military Junta 30 years ago. Many in the police force are fascist and extreme-right wing people that take care their own. Last year a bunch of undercover policemen beat up a freshman student for no reason and in the trial a month ago they were found innocent. At first they claimed that the kid fell and heart himself (something ridiculously stupid if you saw the kid's hospital photos). a few days later a video was given to the media tha clearly shows that they are beating him up in the middle of the street.

Posted by lakis December 15, 08 03:48 PM
54.

Situation in Greek is a good and healthy example of how people are not afraid of their goverment. Violence is not good though.

They can't stand the way their goverment works - they fight against it and try to change things.

When people can not change things when they want to change them, because they are afraid or for any other reason, it is not a democracy they live in.

Here in USA for example, we are given at least a virtual opportunity to change things every 4 years, any other time we are too afraid to do anything but watch companies to screw everything up.

PS. There should be no real violence in those pictures for us Americans... how many people have we killed in Middle East... in vain. Just for profits.

Posted by Jonathan December 15, 08 03:56 PM
55.

It’s very sad about Alexander Grigoropoulos. My condolences to his family and friends.
But
IF it is true that this 15 year old BOY, was out at night with a group of young men, confronting the police (sounds like a gang to me) and threw fire bombs at the police, the police have the right to use deadly force to protect themselves. Arresting the officer and putting him in prison was a mistake. The other mistake was not shooting the violent protesters. Basically they are protesting violence by using violence. I know I don’ have to point this out, but I will. 99.9% of the protesters didn’t know Alexander. They just wanted an excuse to act like animals.

Posted by USA December 15, 08 03:57 PM
56.

Picture 8: Bullseye!

Posted by Evan December 15, 08 03:59 PM
57.

It's amazing to read all those americans, usually really proud of having overthrown the british rule and countless other third world government, having fastidious double standards when rioters aren't pro-american.

I should also remember that USA supported the military dictatorship in Greece.

Posted by Erasmas December 15, 08 04:11 PM
58.

Very sad - I have yet to see anyone explain the underlying cause for all this anger - it certainly is not the terrible loss of one young man - accident or not.

The anti-American vitriol by some is amusing - I always see that as simple envy of our life here in the USA.

Posted by Rob Jacob December 15, 08 04:13 PM
59.

At this moment almost everyone thinks that these rioters are just spoiled kids who have nothing better to do but that is not true. There are the rioters and the looters (2 diferent things) and besides, they are not rioting just for the death of the kid but because of years and years of opression and decadence. I dont usually suport violence but this is not violence whem you compare kids with slingshots against cops with all theyre protections and "guns". Today the world sees this kids as mad and violent but certainly, in the future, this will be remembered as a great manifestation against the governments corruption and opression. Amazing pictures as usual.

Posted by Bruno December 15, 08 04:14 PM
60.

It's a shame that all those deriding capitalism are ignorant of the bread lines of the CCCP and are ignorant of the poverty, suffering, and inequality of the communist nations currently operating.
It's a shame to see kids so unaware of the real world that they would attack those whose task is protecting them and destroy the property of their countrymen.
This type of violence removes the legitimacy of their cause. These are the actions of criminals, not protestors. Any attempt at wrapping these actions in altruistic motives is an insult to the intelligence of anyone that takes the time to sit down and look at both sides of the issue.

motive

Posted by Stavros December 15, 08 04:16 PM
61.

a respond to 55...Noone threw firebombs to the police officers,there were several witnesses that night and video of the murder which can justify that..so don't lie with your right wing propaganda that usually government friendly media use.People did not only protest for Alexandro's death but also for many other issues that our society can't stand anymore=(poverty,unemployment,corruption,poor educational system) Look at the photograph of Alex if you see a murderer in that smile and in that age......it is far from obvious that you need help.

Posted by A greek citizen December 15, 08 04:20 PM
62.

This is not about a child who got killed by police: As far as I read (I'm not greek) Its about unethical politicians. The mass media in Greece and here in Central Europe leaves this skillfully out of their coverage.

Posted by Markus December 15, 08 04:21 PM
63.

Violence is the wrong way. I don't support such protests.

Posted by Anonymous December 15, 08 04:24 PM
64.

Just... awesome! *-*

Posted by Thiago December 15, 08 04:25 PM
65.

Powerful photoset. Nice job.

Posted by llorch December 15, 08 04:35 PM
66.

Comment 5 @ KesheR: The best way to protest is not violence but so many countries in the world achived their independence with violence and war, they have national days to celebrate about it. The events in Greece are not a revolution. They are just riots. This was a comment about violence. And I will agree that the worst kind of violence is the one we cannot see.

Comment 7 @ Josh: We have elections as well. Greek people are mainly stupid as american people are and most of the people are, including myself. We elect people that we think will change things just because they say so. And always seems that we 're choosing but in fact we 're not. Elections is the most brilliant thing ever. But capitalism and corporations found a way to skip that. Many citizens of the U.S. as far as I know, moved away from the USA during the 8 years Bush presidency. Many of them were politics and people of art and culture. Everybody wants the best for their country, for their fellow man and for themselves.

Comment 10 @ KD: The are shouting against poverty allright among many other things. Would you like them starve to death first to do so?

Comment 14 @ FreedomLover: As Johann Wolfgang Goethe said: "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
To you:
You love capitalist goverment... until they evict your home and your business and hurt your people you love. Check that they' re no "or"s, just "end"s.

Comment 15 @ BigBear: All the media around the world showed the Obama when elected president. The impact of US Presidency decisions to world are huge. But the US President is not the only factor but many others as well. On the other hand you can't always blaim others for the status of your own country.

Comment 18 @ chabba: The kid died in 6 of December was killed by a police officer in cold blood. Every witness said and testified that they saw the police officer shot in the direction of the kid. And the witnesses were common people. Not future protesters. And there was only one plastic water bottle and a bunch of swearing. The police officer later testified in few words that the kid was deserved to die without showing any guilt or remorse. There 's also a video in youtube that someone/s filmed the whole scene from an appartment in the neighborhood that the kid was killed, when he/she/they heard shouting. Unfortunately, you can't see the shooting clearly but you can see the two police officers and their movements. No molotov coctails or crowd attacks. They left just like contract-killers.
Nevertheless, the police from the beginning stated otherwise as always do. Is trully sad. I trully admire police officers. It's a tough job.

Comment 31 @ Gallier: You' re totally right. Here in Greece many can't understand why the goverment do things the way it does it without aftermaths. And that is what make the youth angry. All this violence is anger, which was spawned by many events.
Is totally wrong to say that all police-officers are bad - is simple-minded - but many police branches behavior as corrupted.

Comment 33@ Patrick Henry: Next time we will try to fit your stereotype for repressing masses.

Commet 37 @ Shradha: They were the best. Hope every nation had only one of such men. But the speeches and actions of those men weren't enough to change things. Both of them inspire many people to go out to the streets and claim their rights (and as far as I know it wasn's a so peacefull protest).

The last 4 to 5 days the riots are continuing mainly in Athens but the media are not showing anything or just say half of the truth, especially when the police attack unprovoked peacefull protesters.
The point is that the main greek society and especially greek goverment doesn't hear young generation' s demands.
The youth and people have lost their belief in greek justice, which turns a blind eye. Justice is not blind here in Greece. She is a bitch with bionic eyes. That's why young men are full with anger. Is not the child's death. Don' t be stupid. It is a whole series of events.
Just like in Paris. Two kids died in a chase with police and this was the spark that set the fire.

Love to all. Hoping for the riots soon to cease so we can take decisions under peace of mind.
Before reach to a decision, search for opinions of all sides.

Posted by Nomizw December 15, 08 04:38 PM
67.

The two major Greek parties are corrupt BUT every 4 years, when it comes to elections, they receive 80% of the total votes! Now there's a contradiction here, don't you think? The problem of the Greek society isn't the corrupt governments, it's the stupidity of the average Greek and his inability to see past his ego. The problem is that he prioritizes his personal benefit over the overall benefit.
Someone said that people get the governments they deserve. And he is totally right.
Concerning the riots, it's all about releasing the pressure. They managed to channel the anger into destruction of the properties of innocent people. Things will come to normal after a few days.

Posted by Dimitris December 15, 08 04:39 PM
68.

"37.Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King changed the world without ever resorting to violence."

Wrong. Martin Luther King Jr. had an entire movement behind him, some violent, some non-violent. To say that MLK achieved civil rights legislation in the USA by purely non-violent means is a fallacy. Gandhi's non-violent revolution was also supported by other groups that were fighting using violence as a means of resistance.

Learn your history before you go spouting tired cliches.

Posted by MC December 15, 08 04:44 PM
69.

An election isn't overthrowing the government. It's just putting the same **** with a different face.

If voting changed anything, it would be illegal.

Posted by HogSwine December 15, 08 04:45 PM
70.

You have a remarkable newspaper! With the utmost pleasure I look it from Russia.
To all of readers hello from Russia!!

Posted by Elena December 15, 08 04:59 PM
71.

Markus grasped the essence of this.

Being a Greek doing my doctoral studies in the US, I noticed the way the media also here tried to isolate the murder of the young from the social phenomena that found expression right afterwards.


Posted by Dionisis December 15, 08 05:04 PM
72.


Wow in Greece police kill a kid and it is a nation riot. In America police kill a kid and it is just another day.

Posted by Thanos73 December 15, 08 05:13 PM
73.

All these actions are driven by Communistic extremist groups and ultimately have nothing to do with the death of the young man ... his death only surved as an opportunistic situation to instigate this anarchy to overthrow the government ... in Melbourne, Australia the same thing happened December 14 - 3 police killed a 14 year old teenager ... the difference is that the Australian Media, government and people have responded by discussing the need to equip police with tazer guns instead of real guns a motion that needs to be passed through government ... peaceful really.

Posted by Vasiliki D. December 15, 08 05:29 PM
74.

Picture 29 shows an anti-capitalist rioter hurling something while wearing a Nike t-shirt...some protester!

In picture 33 a rioter wears a professional gas-mask. Clearly he went downtown to riot and clash with the police and get into mischief. Peaceful protest for the death of Alexis my rear-end.
I was ashamed of the Greek police and the way they acted. Now I am ashamed of my country.

Posted by stagnantgreek December 15, 08 05:37 PM
75.

That's just the beginning.....

Posted by Lalala21 December 15, 08 05:43 PM
76.

Tout gouvernement n'est qu'« une association secrète de voleurs et d'assassins », « toute législation est une absurdité, une usurpation et un crime ». C'est ce que démontre ici, en se fondant sur les principes les plus certains du Droit naturel, de la morale et de la justice, le juriste américain Lysander Spooner (1808-1887). Cet essai s'adresse aux victimes présentes des brigands appelés « chefs d'Etat », qui les rançonnent et les envoient à la mort en une tyrannie dont la prétendue « lé gitimité » ne repose que sur le monopole de la violence des armes.

Posted by Pollinamix December 15, 08 05:47 PM
77.

My favourite is #20...A candle and a rose for a lost young soul...

Posted by Veron December 15, 08 05:48 PM
78.

Young useful idiots

Posted by Miró December 15, 08 05:52 PM
79.

Seriously, the Spainards that posted here, really really really need some lessons on economics.

Posted by tzane December 15, 08 05:54 PM
80.

A response to 61 (A Greek Citizen) from another Greek Citizen:

Do you like these pictures? Go to Iraq or Avganistan! I dont !!!

Do you want to fight the problems and the decision makers who created them?

Go to your Parliament Representatives that you voted for in the last 30 years and helped you and your kid find a job, burn their house and vote for a different representative next time.

Another Greek Citizen.


Posted by Another Greek Citizen December 15, 08 06:01 PM
81.

Great set of pictures. I saw the first picture and wondered how long it would take in the comment section for the name of Bush to pop up. Surprise! The first comment.
Whether its a protest in Greece or Macarthur Park, Los Angeles California, they allways start and end up the same way, people with a legitamite beef against THE Man get together for a protest, probably with peaceful intentions. Then just a few of the hooded rat bastard antagonist get in front of the crowd, start throwing rocks at THE MAN, THE MAN reacts, then the protesters react and all hell is unleashed. I am all for peacful protest, but if somebody on my side throws out a malotov caoctail, its time for me to go because nothing good is coming my way. Just my humble opinion

Posted by raul briseno December 15, 08 06:02 PM
82.

allowing the 'masses' to comment on news stories is a waste of webspace and only encourages the ignorant and the reactionary to spout their vile and often ignorant opinions to other ignorant and reactionary individuals unleashing a torrent of stupidity and hatred.

anything to sell ad space. foolish, very foolish.

Posted by Chicago December 15, 08 06:03 PM
83.

There's nothing like witnessing the idiocy of a country.

Posted by yes December 15, 08 06:06 PM
84.

the pictures are great (as always) but there are some inaccuracies and mistakes.

1. Picture 21: "A statue of Rigas Feraios, a Greek writer and revolutionary who died in 1798" Are you sure that this is Rigas Feraios? And why is he dressed like an ancient greek then?

2. Picture 5: The policeman who shot the kid, did not claim that the kids had thrown firebombs, but some stones and pieces of wood. The witnesses said that they were just shouting, Alexandros and his friends were curious so they went there to see what was going on, and then somebody threw an empty glass bottle. You have to mention both sides correctly, or nothing at all. But Alexandros was definitely not member of a gang...

As for the violence, I do not support the riots at any case. But I'm not at all optimistic, I don't think there will be any kind of solution. If the politicians continue to act as if they want to remain as long as possible stuck to their chairs and if the police tries to cover up the story (once again) the people will get angrier... I'm prepared for the worst :(

Posted by GreekGirl December 15, 08 06:07 PM
85.

Send in the Spartans.

Posted by Leonidas December 15, 08 06:07 PM
86.

greek chicks are hot.....

Posted by Anonymous December 15, 08 06:08 PM
87.

You can see 2 different types here. Those who are protesting and then those who are rioting. Don't think they are one in the same.

Posted by Anonymous December 15, 08 06:10 PM
88.

The majority of pictures here show violence, fire, anger, tear gas......
But the truth is that what's really happening is the picture 28, or picture number 20. Every night young people are gathered in front of the parliament, and they protest, peacefully for a better future.
But you know, peacefull pictures don't "sell" . The media have to show you that in Greece a war is taking place, To terrify you. That's the way it is....

Posted by Another Greek December 15, 08 06:10 PM
89.

The Greek government must fall:

For mass human rights abuse and restrictions of freedom, especially religous freedoms.

For the repeated injustices, murders, and arrest of Greek citizens whos family does not originate from greece and people who are not a member the Orthodox Church of Greece.

For the arrest and brutal assault of protestors, including peaceful protestors.

For mass political corruption often resulting in violence or injustice

For the unfair treatment of it’s citizens in general.

For the police brutality and killings, especially in the case of students and young teenagers.

For manipulating the legal system and ruining justice in there country.

I think its time for the protestors to stop messing around and overthrow there goverment. Replace it with a new democracy or even anarchism. Spain was once a functional anarachist state, perhaps Greece can recreate functional anarchy.

Posted by Stephen December 15, 08 06:27 PM
90.

Hey EUROPEAN.

We don't do it in America because it doesn't work. We just had a peaceful revolution and elected Obama.

See our long history for more details.

The end.

Posted by Smarmy December 15, 08 06:28 PM
91.

Its fine to protest, but when you start burning peoples cars and looting banks its gone too far.

Posted by Zane December 15, 08 06:29 PM
92.

What a bunch of idiots. They are only hurting themselves and their own communities.

Posted by Khristopher December 15, 08 06:40 PM
93.

Communists and anarchists????????What are you talking about?????
I am shocked to see what an opinion you formed about the reasons of these riots....Well i can imagine americans still be afraid of the communists :p

One of the wisest observations has come from Nikos Konstandaras, thmanaging editor of Kathimerini, one of Greece's more sober and respected newspapers.In an editorial entitled "Anger's teen martyr", Mr Konstandaras wrote that Mr Grioropoulos' blood would be "used to bind together every disparate protest and complaint into a platform of righteous rage against all the ills of our societyso''-QUOTE BBC-
You know what he is reffering to when talking about ills?Well lets see
Massive layoffs, forest fires killing 75 people 1/9 of the country burnt, 4! huge economic scandals in 3 years, healthcare system, educational system, pension system, illegal privatizations, 9% unemployment, 30% among the youth, bureaucracy, corruption, is that enough for you? Please dont just leave comments about anarchy and spoiled brats and give some of you time to learn about our state. Crisis is everywhere, this is just the beginning.

P.S The boy never threw a molotov cocktail, no rocks, no bottles, apparently the policeman-nicknamed ''RAMBO'' among his colleagues...- had just a very bad day...

Posted by Desperate greek December 15, 08 06:44 PM
94.

I can understand protests over the death of a child. Despite this, I cannot say that I do believe the Greeks involved in these riots (obviously) haven't taken the boy's death too far. Yes, his death was tragic, no matter the circumstances; I do not believe anyone deserves to die in such a way, but to selfishly put thousands of other people in danger over one person's death? If everyone rioted like this every single day, the world would be in a serious state of Anarchy.

If I read one more generalization about the U.S. I'm going to puke. Not everyone is a mindless drone. Give us at least the respect of an individual as I give you.

Posted by Rachel December 15, 08 06:57 PM
95.

Spartans! What is your occupation?

Posted by Leonidas December 15, 08 07:10 PM
96.

The government should just put the army in use and blast all those anarchist idiots of with an MG.
The police shot a 15yr old kid, so what? Thousands of 15yr olds get shot/beaten to death/... EVERY DAY around the world.
Spoiled bourgeoisie kids that think anarchy is 'cool' are trashing our streets.
Is this where we want our future to go.
It reminds a hell of a lot of doomsday 'mad max' movies...

Oh yeah, and I'm west-European, and I'm only 22yr's old.

Posted by Dries December 15, 08 07:16 PM
97.

I wish I was there...

Posted by Theszcz December 15, 08 07:17 PM
98.

Simpleton americans... those of you who say that the thing that gave rise to all that violence was the death of a 15 year old, that's like saying that WWI started because Franz Ferdinand was assasinated.

Both things might be true, but there's a whole lot of background behind.

These riots are a direct consequence of the economic crisis and the way western goverments are dealing with it. And yes, you americans started it.

Posted by Spain indaass December 15, 08 07:19 PM
99.

What is funny, the rioters are just opportunistic thieves. They found an excuse to steal and destroy private property. Think about the shop owners that may be all they have in life and those fools burned it.

Protest all you want, but as soon as you destroy a single building, car, or send a molotov cocktail hurling, I say you should be shot where you stand!

People that bash the USA on this site, WHY DO YOU WANT IN SO BAD if we suck so much? Greatest county in the world!

Posted by USA LOVER December 15, 08 07:23 PM
100.

The riots are organized in the background by the 2nd party in Greece (PASOK). Seeing as they couldn't win over the ruling party (ND), they were waiting for something like this.
And when a mad cop shot a kid (an incident that happens in Greece, as often as in "once in 1985 and once in 2008") they were all supposedly like "oh my god this has gone too far, we cannot take the police violence any more!".
Anarchists and leftists acting united and both under PASOK guidance, sheep mentality.
Now go to your Indymedia/MySpace "protest" page to get instructions on what you should do next...

Posted by Anon December 15, 08 07:30 PM
101.

But the truth is that what's really happening is the picture 28, or picture number 20.” Try again. It is unbelievable that any of you would try to blame this on capitalism, off all things. “State terrorism and capitalism working together.” . “State terrorism and capitalism working together.” Please, for your own pride’s sake, look up the definition of laissez-faire (“hands-off”) capitalism before you start putting that in with “state terrorism.” And that you would condone their actions. That's easy to do until they destroy your property. All this innocent businesses and universities, all these people parking their cars on the street, and those young women trapped in a burning building. And you say that's all fine and okay, because they're making a statement. Simply appalling.

Posted by Shocked December 15, 08 07:31 PM
102.

I am the daughter of a Greek immigrant. My late dad always said that the US was the best country in the world. There are a ot of inequities in Greece. I am sad that ALex was killed, his poor parents. I hope that the current Government gets ousted and they use more Democracy than Socialism. I never could undesrstand how the "cradle of democracy" could become a Socialist domain. We are very lucky here. Also violence never solved anything.

Posted by polixeni December 15, 08 07:31 PM
103.

God, someone look up 'anarchy' before they start spouting it as a curse word. It's a general heading meaning 'no government' (obviously) with many types of anarchy arranged under that broad roof. Does NOT mean spontaneous burning of innocent people's cars in the streets, death and destruction of those with no part in the problem.

Wikipedia's helpful (and multilingual).

R.I.P Alexandros Grigoropoulos; he was too young.

Posted by Canadian I suppose. December 15, 08 07:48 PM
104.

I wish our country men would stand up against the widespread idiocy of the US but we have been scared by our leaders to give up our right to free speech and they arrest us when we protest and call it an act of terrorism and then we get held indefinitely with out a single phone call. America has lost it's balls as a people. Now the best Americans have had there voices silenced I am not as proud to be called an American though I want the change the world wants as well. Believe me when I say there are a lot of good people that our government truly does not represent .
signed. American for peace and love

Posted by Acon magrue December 15, 08 08:00 PM
105.

focus on the important; anarchists are EVIL, often semi-organized satanist types.
protesters are good... especially when they grow up & decide to stop protesting and simply change the system.

Posted by guardian kid December 15, 08 08:10 PM
106.

To all the Americans. Please do not believe whatever is said on TV. There is not such thing as "bad communists" and "angry anarchists".
Alex, did not throw molotov to the policeman. He was at the wrong place, the wrong time.
In Greece there is a big history of violent policemen who kill and do not get punished. If you add the financial problems and the freedom of speech, the answer is in the pictures. And for all those Americans who are terrified of the violence, why dont you protest (peacefully) against Guantanamo and the wars in Middleast?

Posted by Dimitris December 15, 08 08:15 PM
107.

Parabens pelas fotos!
Brazil

Posted by Renato Conde December 15, 08 08:24 PM
108.

holy sh*t if that happen every time in the usa there would be no country left. damn greek cry babies

Posted by edmund December 15, 08 08:33 PM
109.

Desperate Greek:
“Communists and anarchists????????What are you talking about?????
I am shocked to see what an opinion you formed about the reasons of these riots....Well i can imagine americans still be afraid of the communists”“

I’m not afraid of Communists. But picture 21 does have the anarchy symbol on it. I’m not unaware of your desperation but I was wondering if what I heard -- that a Communist party, and anarchists -- started the whole thing by burning Christmas symbols. How did this start? Who started this? Did the police just start randomly firing into a crowd?

”Massive layoffs, forest fires killing 75 people 1/9 of the country burnt, 4! huge economic scandals in 3 years, healthcare system, educational system, pension system, illegal privatizations, 9% unemployment, 30% among the youth, bureaucracy, corruption, is that enough for you?“

Uh. that could be said about America too. New Orleans, California fires, Illinois politics, financial collapses, 2 million jobs lost, car company bankruptcies, 10 trillion dollar debt. Yet here we are.

Posted by Jack M December 15, 08 08:39 PM
110.

As always, I love your images/site.

That said, i spent 2 months in Greece last year, working with one of the Universities pictured above (won't say which one) to help develop a Venture Capital system in that nation. In short, the process was a fiasco - political dealings, strange/unworkable rules and sketchy professional maneuverings led me to conclude that an "advanced technology" VC in that country was unworkable. I experienced first hand - but at a 'foreigners' distance - some of the frustration, corruption and mismanagement that occurs every day, there. God Speed Alex.

I left thin

Posted by Michael Laine December 15, 08 08:44 PM
111.

I admire Greeks' action and major protest against the police and government (except couple of totally aimless, anarchistic actions). I wish my fellow citizens in Turkey had the same courage to show their anger.

Police killed a young kid in Turkey couple of weeks ago. They shot him in the head. Nobody did anything.

My people has no identity, no sense of freedom. They basically assume that if cops do something you have to accept. If cops say something you have to obey even if you're not a criminal.

Go Greece!

Posted by Murat December 15, 08 09:03 PM
112.

These are great pictures. I find the sea of young People in #28 to be telling. So many of the ideological are young. #35 is also excellent.

Why do the comments for every post recently devolve into anti-US rhetoric? It took exactly 1 post to begin the circus this time. This seems to have nothing to do with the US, but here we are having to read your inane anti-US blabber. I find mindless patriots pathetic, but people who believe in the American Bogey-Man are just as brainwashed as the idiots who chest beat about the "Best country in the world!" You fools need some perspective. I suggest some travel.

Posted by FlyinRyan December 15, 08 09:04 PM
113.

#29 - I don't think that's what Nike had in mind when they told people to Just Do It.

Posted by Matt December 15, 08 09:25 PM
114.

I am shocked and saddened by the events in Greece over the last few days.

As far as the policeman's motivations in firing at the boy, only he really knows. It is a shame the boy died, although I would never begrudge anyone the right to defend himself if, in fact, there were fire bombs threatening the officers.

I am also never against peaceful protest. However, these idiots have crossed the line. I know Greeks have some rights with regards to owning weapons; I'd like to think that some businesses have been spared because their owners were willing to defend them. I can tell you if I saw someone coming for my store with a molotov cocktail, he'd have a few holes in him the moment he drew back his arm to throw it! In the Los Angeles riots about 10 years ago, many businesses were burned, but others were successfully defended from the rioters. Part of defending one's self is defending one's family and one's property. No one has the right to take those things from another.

Those of you who say there are not anarchists amongst the rioters, please ref: picture #21.

Those of you who say the protestors have no conception of what life would be like under a socialist/communist rule, you're absolutely correct there also. If a riot like this started up in North Korea or the Soviet Union, cops would be using quite a bit more force than expired tear gas.

Finally, FlyinRyan; I've been fortunate to travel to many beautiful countries across Asia, the middle east, and Europe. There are a lot of things that can be learned there - culture, music, beautiful languages... and I am very glad to leave with new thoughts and ideas floating around in my mind. I am glad for the many wonderful people I meet, foods I try, images burned in my mind... But I am also glad to be home to the United States. As an avid student of world and American history, (especially Revolutionary War era) I still believe the USA is the best country in the world. However, I'm also willing to admit that it's purely my opinion, and not everyone has to agree with me.

Posted by JimJim December 15, 08 09:41 PM
115.

Dimitris,
No such thing as "bad communists" or "angry anarchists"? Where have you been learning your history? Where have you been on the internet? Of course there's bad communists! Of course there's angry anarchists, look at picture 21! Communists and anarchists took part in these riots!
What you mean to say is that this is NOT a strictly communist or anarchist riot by any means. Using false information to talk down to Americans simply destroys the credibility of your point.

Posted by Jonathan Anonymous December 15, 08 09:53 PM
116.

Rioting is the DUTY of oppressed citizens. this is awesome, and what should be happening.

Posted by Nick Taxidermy December 15, 08 10:16 PM
117.

it's sad. my parents left greece for the united states just after the junta about 30 years ago because of the corruption and bureaucracy in greek government, the inability for those without a bribe/insider to get jobs, the ineffectiveness of elected officials and police. and now an entire generation later and the problems my parents fled greece to get away from STILL plague their homeland and are what these students are protesting. nothing changes. very very sad.

Posted by photini December 15, 08 10:49 PM
118.

Anarchy = chaos
Communism = dictatorship

The above are absolute truths!

The idiots rioting are just spoiled brats who don't know how the world works (and probably never worked an honest day in their lives...)

Posted by Dries December 15, 08 11:10 PM
119.

Fantastic pictures! This is something that needs to be done in some countries. Where people have been weighed down by the political and economical turmoil that these governments create. I hope that only good comes of this, and not new draconian laws to further enslave the masses.

Posted by Tom Bones December 15, 08 11:34 PM
120.

@ Pic 7. There's a guy giving the dirty bird to the poposs...hahahahaha.

Don't Taze me, Bro!!!!

Posted by Bob December 15, 08 11:55 PM
121.

To all the brain damaged idiots that call THOUSANDS OF CIVILLIAN PROTESTORS "spoiled brats", how the hell is living at $800 a month (way below poverty level) spoiled?

Shoot a kid for no reason, shit erupts. These riots are f*cking beautiful. It's too bad most Americans are too spineless to do anything like this whenever a piece of sh*t cop shoots someone over here.

Posted by The Truth December 15, 08 11:58 PM
122.

to comment 83: "There's nothing like witnessing the idiocy of a country".
yes, I agree, nothing beats witnessing the Americans voting for Bush TWICE!
... or the Brits voting for Blair three times while now having a Prime Minister they did not even vote for! But I guess making an idiot out of oneself is the easiest...

Posted by Tom December 16, 08 12:23 AM
123.

Hey I know, let's destroy the place we live in. I have never understood rioting and violence to make any point. Especially when it is protesting violence. Wow that is really smart............NOT!

Posted by Dean December 16, 08 12:41 AM
124.

quote"The idiots rioting are just spoiled brats who don't know how the world works (and probably never worked an honest day in their lives...)"
No, the children and grown ups that riot and protest don't know how the world works, they just understand that it doesn't work for them. And they protest about it.... is that so wrong?
And finally, democracy was the best thing that they could think of 2500 years ago (and it worked very differently back then) . Lets find something new, if democracy, the way we have it, doesn't work for the citizens. What we have here (Greece) is not democracy, it's modern slavery....

Posted by Antonis December 16, 08 01:18 AM
125.

95% of the protests have been completely peaceful
5% of the protests turned violent.
But violent pictures make more sensational news.

And if all these people protesting were 'communist' & ' anarchists' then greece would definitely be a communist country which it is obviously not. People
are protesting in the streets against a state that does nothing for them, politicians that are corrupt and to on top of it all the state shoots innocent 15y olds.

Posted by GreekGuy December 16, 08 03:06 AM
126.

SURPRISE TO SEE ALL THAT
I SUPPOSED THAT IT ALL HAPPENS IN THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES BUT THESE PICS DEMONSTRATE THE OTHER WAY ROUND

Posted by waqar December 16, 08 03:11 AM
127.

US citizens protest by sending an sms with their i-phones. Or even a twitter.
How many more jobs do you have to lose? How many more banks have to be bailed out with your money? How many more people must use food coupons?
How many more people have to die in far away countries for you to have your right of "free speech" and "Democracy"? How many more people have to die of tasers and police brutality?
It's easy to talk about other countries problems but when it comes to yours you just have no idea what to do. Look at you. It took 8 years of G.Bush and you finally got angry enough to start writing in capitals on the internet. Nice job.
It's shortly your turn to go out on the streets and show your anger but you just haven't realized it yet and i don't know if you ever will.
Until then, just look at nations who's story of fighting oppression goes way back in time. Maybe you'll learn something from them.

Posted by Grekos December 16, 08 03:15 AM
128.

Dean you are missing something there...we have ALLREADY destroyed the "world" we live in. We have burned many "Xmas" trees last year in the summer-fires here in Greece, that tree is just fake..it doesn't mean anything!

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;
None but ourselves can free our minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the time.
How long shall they kill our prophets,
While we stand aside and look? Ooh!
Some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fulfil de book.

Bob Marley

Posted by Greek hot chick as you said December 16, 08 03:21 AM
129.

go go greek brothers
we in Bulgaria support your cause

Posted by mashine December 16, 08 03:24 AM
130.

"when i was young i was dreaming to be something great,now i want to be that person i was when i was dreaming"

Posted by James Nakats December 16, 08 03:29 AM
131.

.. to all trendy boys & girls on wall street..
".. comes to your city .. next season..!!"
..with us or against us..
(as your x -f****ing president said..)

Posted by ..the roof is on fire.. December 16, 08 03:43 AM
132.

Just a thought, but if you throw, or even threaten to throw incendiary explosive devices at other people, (cop or not) in my eyes at least, you waive any right to not be shot at.

And if you truly ARE oppressed and are protesting that oppression by your own government, burning and looting stores/private property is a really bad way to go about that, as it doesn't harm the gov't at all, only your fellow oppressed citizens.

Posted by Lars December 16, 08 03:45 AM
133.

I believe this was just the demo version...The full package will be released, after the (American) "crisis" will hit the rest of the world. And then you americans,might understand that, what happend in Greece, might be in your backyard in no time. Do you believe that your goverment can handle the rage of people better than Greeks did? What happened in LA in 1991, would seem like peacefull demostration. If you are old enough you might remember what people said back then..."No justice, no peace"...

Posted by antaran December 16, 08 03:48 AM
134.

Where are the democracy and liberty that most of you are talking about ? I guess that indeed one can say that there exists some kind of very limited democracy in the sense that the power is shared among the members of the upper class. Liberty is nothing but the freedom to waste your money the way you like. Do you know how this society looks like from the bottom ?

Long live to the greek revolution, may it spread to the rest of the world (including very conservative countries like the US).

Posted by C. December 16, 08 03:51 AM
135.

Obviously violence is not government's only privilege.
I'm so shocked that most people are annoyed by the reaction of the riots and not by the action of the policeman / government. Would you pull out a gun and kill a boy that throws a bottle of water at you or calls you names?

For god's shake most of them are just kids. Angry kids but kids. Even the most cruel judge treats kids differently than criminals, why parents can't? Just because some broken cars and some burned down shops? Yes sure it's not right... but are they more important than human lives? Are they more important than OUR KIDS?

I just try to remember that, that poor, dead kid could be my son and i would definitely like to know what his parents think about those riots.

Posted by Eddy December 16, 08 04:11 AM
136.

Whoever doesn't live in Greece has no right to judge the riots. The land of democracy has become the land of police terror many times with no reason. The police is beating old people who protest for their pensions, students who wish to have a better tomorrow, immigrants are being humiliated every day, and now is murdering the youth once again! I think these reasons are enough not only for a group of people but for everyone who lives in Greece to protest for their rights. Also please know my "good and lawful" citizens that these days even a lot of peaceful protests has taken place, the answer of the police to protesters was the same: PEPPER GAS and TEAR BOMBS. You will not see these images on the news since the media has to deal with more important issues than the protests (irony). But I have seen what the police is doing, not only me, other people as well. So yes the riots look beautiful in the eyes of free people.

Posted by Gal December 16, 08 04:18 AM
137.

in a country where individual violence is so spread, why such a fear of collective violence? what is more telling is accepting the state's resort to violence as acceptable in both domestic and foreign affairs, but cannot even accept the right to resist.

Even the history of US, where you the people are so rational and wise to know how to deal with corrupt governments peacefully contains those moments of madness. anyway, we are talking about a country established by a war of independence which was declared as a war against tyranny, a country could not changed the constitution without fighting a civil war, a country where 1960s witnessed a massive civil rights movement when police violence was more than often and also a country where no one should forget the "martyrs" of labour rights struggles.

Posted by anonymous December 16, 08 04:32 AM
138.

@ 112. There is no such thing as a mindless patriot. The correct term is nationalist.

I find that what is going on here in Greece is a stain upon the young people of Greece. So what if a policeman shot a 15 year old kid on accident. The kid was with a bunch of hooligans breaking into the police car. I would almost say that he deserved to be shot. Yes its sad, but what's even sadder was that while he was alive, he was hanging out with a bunch of good-for-nothings.

@ 61. yes, I think anyone is capable of being a murderer. It's usually the ones you least expect who are the dangerous ones.

@ 57 You have it all wrong about the American Revolution. It was not a revolution. It was a war. Revolution would have meant that the Americans would have stayed with Britain, but we wanted to break away.

Posted by headbangingagainstwall December 16, 08 04:51 AM
139.

Focus on the reasons that triggered violence and also the objectives of the rioters: (i) killing of a 15 yrs old boy is NOT justified for any reason. Even if he was verbally abusive to these "special guards" (i.e. NOT policemen) it is a democratic right to protest freely (ii) They are protesting for a brighter future. All they have now is unemployment or a basic salary of 700 EUR, if they are lucky enough to have the "indirect" networking to ensure a job. The same corrupted networking that the special guard used to get without skills his assassinating job (iii) awake public opinion to overthrow this corrupted government that did real-estate business with church and the diary products cartels.

Posted by George December 16, 08 04:51 AM
140.

"We just had a peaceful revolution and elected Obama."

LOL. You CAN'T be serious.

"Anarchy = chaos
Communism = dictatorship
The above are absolute truths!"

Yeah. Right.

Posted by KesheR December 16, 08 05:19 AM
141.

excellent pictures!

Such a large scale of reactions (country-wide massive protests ongoing for days) simply cannot be a mere coincidence of anarchists, looters, disillusioned rich kids or aliens. It would be a mere fallacy to reduce it to just that. They are also common people like you and me expressing their dissappointment about a society they cannot live in anymore.

The quintessence of democracy is not being entitled to an opinion alone; it is also about realizing each one's responsibility to form one´s own opinion under the most critical and informed mind possible. Spitting out the first thing that comes to mind is bad practice of democracy, with unpredictable results.

That´s where the policeman was wrong about when shooting an innocent 15 year old boy, that´s where rioters are wrong when giving out the wrong impression about their motives and that´s where many of you people are wrong when making conclusions and judging without all the facts in your hands.

Posted by Dimitris December 16, 08 05:23 AM
142.

Hey I´ll try to tell you all something that I feel looking at this pics

I live in a contry we call Brazil, and I think you may know it...

Last month, a stupid cop killied a 3 years old kid... he thogth th this kid was in, was a guide by criminals, but was just the kid and his mom...
and now.. do you think we have this kind of riot in brazil??
the people that think that this kind of riot is ilegal and its not necessary, must come to Brazil and check all the things that happen here!!! its desgustin!!

So.. you, who think that its wrong, you must take your ass out of the chair and open your eyes, couse the world is to big and its not just in your rich contry...

A.C.A.B.

Posted by Rodrigo Barcarollo December 16, 08 05:24 AM
143.

Hello Mr. M Chamberlain,
You wrote:
The policeman should be given a trial in front of a jury of his peers, and if he is guilty then sentence him.
If the Greek government is corrupt, then use lawful processes to put an end to corruption.
As long as there is the rule of law, just laws, and the government answers to the people, there will be peace.
But, what about if your last comment does not apply?
In other words: the legal system is sunject of the ruling party!
ENS

Posted by Stratos Su December 16, 08 05:26 AM
144.

What a bunch of idiots. Why are they destroying their own town?

Posted by Deano December 16, 08 05:26 AM
145.

"Hey I know, let's destroy the place we live in. I have never understood rioting and violence to make any point."

Yeah, it's much better bomb some country full of brown or black people. Don't destroy my place, destroy someone else's! Oh, I have a better idea, starve them! Steal their resources, steal their food, steal their labour but... never touch my place!

Can't you see? The world is full of everyday violence and opression. I don't like riots, but they are nothing compared to Globalization, for example.

Posted by KesheR December 16, 08 05:29 AM
146.

I am Greek and there is an old greek phrase

Who ever is outside of the dance knows too many songs

EVERY opinion that is made out of a bunch of photos is WRONG
You don not Know what the hell you are talking about so SHUT UP!!!

To the Americans:
You say you don not want the rest of the world to say or do things against your country YET your goverment WANTS to have a word about EVERYTHING in Every cornrer of the planet
think it over 'best country of the world'

Posted by Michael December 16, 08 05:30 AM
147.

Like artists mark the unseen, anarchists protest for types of violence that we, in our alienation, can't see. We have become familiar with them although they were unnecessarily or arbitrarily imposed.
At this moment the youth of my country behaves like anarchists and this is something that should make us think about what is wrong with the society we have built. And by saying that there are only spoiled brats who protest without reason doesn't solve a thing, it only exposes our generation impairment or even failure to make a better world.

Posted by Dimitris December 16, 08 05:37 AM
148.

''Hey EUROPEAN.
We don't do it in America because it doesn't work. We just had a peaceful revolution and elected Obama.
See our long history for more details.
The end.
Posted by Smarmy December 15, 08 06:28 PM''

Hey Looser AMERICAN,
You don't do it in your desert America because you don't have the balls. You are just so idiot that you think electing Obama is a revolution. You only watch your mainstream media or stupid American comedy.
See your long history? It seems like you don't know much about that too, since you guys don't even have a history.
I feel so glad that we weren't raised like you, lack of information, brainwashed fastfood people.
Rest in peace Alexis. We're with you my Greek brothers. Hope that we'll follow you soon, like the rest of the world should do.

Murat from Turkey.

Posted by Murat Sezgi December 16, 08 05:41 AM
149.

Firstly i wanna thank u for your interest about greece and for the great photoset.Although problems nowdays r clobally the same I dont think it is easy for
out of greece to understand what is happen here. U have to know that just a few people vandalized and make this look like a riot .There r million of people who protest peacefully .I will not spend your time explaining hwat is happening here there r many posts who is doing that before me.I just believe that this is the end of an era and a new period is coming.We need new ideas ,new economic system new fuel new way of living .....and history have proved that changes r being made with violence usually.Of cource all this people who protest dont have the same ideas but i believe they sahre the same feeling for a change.
Sincerelly i am proud that this begun from greece and hope that it will last and make a small diference.
Of cource i really feel sorry for family of alex and all this people who lost their shops cars and properties.
I am sure 2009 will be dificult for everyone but i also hope it will be also diferent and a finally a small hope will arise in the horizon.
otherwise all this power aand hopes will go lost and cant predict what is coming next.
happy but most 'N E W' year for everyone

Posted by yiannis from greece December 16, 08 05:53 AM
150.

The police officers attack to the peacuful demonstrations with tear gas and pepper spray.You ' ve got to see pictures of policemen beating 15-year-old girls and boys.

The police threw over 5.000 chemicals in 5 days and they almost have none left so it's not strange to see people wearing gas masks when going to a demonstration.

ACAB

Posted by Achilleas December 16, 08 06:03 AM
151.

The riots in greece are only a taste of things to come in most other countries. Greece's problems are not unique. High unemployment of university graduates coupled with low salaries and higher living costs, a looming pension crisis and falling living standards, an inefficient state that was unable to make successful social and education reforms, a banking system that relied on wholesale money with little regulatory oversight and financial scandals that went unpunished.
At the same time the solution prescribed was bigger government and help to chosen few industries/ banks etc. Circumstance ideal for political corruption and financial irregularities....people just had enough

Posted by vasilis, london December 16, 08 06:06 AM
152.

@ 90 Smarmy

Hey, americans.
We protest AND riot after one innocent child gets kild.
You elected Obama when you lose about 3.000 US soldiers and killed over a 100.000 Iraqis.

Posted by X.P. December 16, 08 06:13 AM
153.

Jonathan
I am not a communist, or an anarchist. I love my country and I was at the streets protesting. I want my Goverment to be afraid of me, I do not want to be afraid of them. I am not on the internet all the time, that was bad sarcasm.
Law and order is sometimes very dangerous. Especially if the politicians, wearing suits are stealing and destroying the country more than a molotov bomb. If you cannot undestand this, we are living in different worlds. Propably.

Posted by Dimitris December 16, 08 06:13 AM
154.

| Anarchy = chaos
| Communism = dictatorship
|
| The above are absolute truths!

what is also truth is
Communism = Fascism = Capitalism = Socialism = Religion = Dictatorship
all political systems and religions try to accomplish one thing, to put you under their command! Anarchy is NOT a political system, is more like a philosophical movement. The Anarchists do not seek violence and chaos despite what the MEDIA try to say. The Anarchists seeks for a society free of ANY form of CONTROL.
Control can be in the form of a government/police/company/bank/media etc.

As far as the damages are concerned, its absolutely nothing, compared to the MULTIMILLION scandals we've seen over the past few years and most -if not all- were about misuse and loss of public property, tax money, social security funds etc for personal profit of "politicians" and "businessmen". On top of that, the government will sponsor 28bil Euros to the Banks in order to ease out the "Crisis".
These money of course will be taken out of "our" pockets, WHY? If the government really wanted to help the "real Crisis" should give the 28bil. for Education, Public Health and Welfare and Protection of the Environment.

Also be aware that on any mass demonstration in Athens (like a protest of workers for instance) there are ALWAYS small groups of "hooded" braindeads that cause damages. They never get arrested ... doesn't that sound strange? Doesn't it also sound strange that the MEDIA give more attention to the damages caused by the braindeads that to the demonstration itself? Don't these images discourage more people from leaving their couch and join the peaceful "in general" demonstrations?

Posted by LEFTY December 16, 08 06:19 AM
155.

@ 109

"... here we are "
Have you really thought about that answer ? Perhaps you should react somehow but then again maybe you shouldn't

@118

Do you know what communism is ? Have you ever read the communism manifesto ?
Quoting wikipedia:
"Communism is a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general."
Perhaps you should know what are you talking about before you post. The ineffective application of communism in many countries does not mean that the ideology is wrong!

Posted by Aggelos December 16, 08 06:20 AM
156.

Les grecs n'ont pas à avoir peur de 300 bébés anarchistes fils à papa boutonneux... si c'est le cas, Sparte est vraiment bien loin, très très loin... en même temps, je suis français, et Charlemagne est vraiment loin, mais super vâchement loin... de toute manière, ce continent est mort depuis quelques années déjà. Pour ma part, j'me casse en Amérique. Que les zéropéens se démmerdent.

Posted by Callahan December 16, 08 06:25 AM
157.

Jonathan
I am not a communist, or an anarchist. I love my country and I was at the streets protesting. I want my Goverment to be afraid of me, I do not want to be afraid of them. I am not on the internet all the time, that was bad sarcasm.
Law and order is sometimes very dangerous. Especially if the politicians, wearing suits are stealing and destroying the country more than a molotov bomb. If you cannot undestand this, we are living in different worlds. Propably.

Posted by Dimitris December 16, 08 06:26 AM
158.

Well excuse me dear readers Greece is a peaceful country and we do not have street violence like other countries or guns in the like the USA but a police officer taking a life of a 15 years old kid and not get punished is not ok,
and if you see the news about the scandals of our government this days, and no one gets punished! People live with 700 euro for month!
Some graphic designer are protesting against the violence in our city http://til01.blogspot.com/2008/12/how-our-days-passing-by-presented-in.html

Posted by til01 December 16, 08 06:33 AM
159.

Pic7, man i fall in love.

Posted by Latente December 16, 08 06:40 AM
160.

Imagine if Bush was on power for 20 years.
Imagine if Blagojevich (sp?) was left untouched after trying to sell Obama's seat.
Imagine if Madoff was actually a member of the government
Imagine if to get a job you had to be a member of the republicans or the democrats.

In Greece, they dont need to imagine these things, because they live them.
The corruption of the political system and the lack of change, the fact that government controls a large number of jobs, the attempt of the government to "address" issues with diversions (e.g. the name of Skopia), the failure of the church and the lack of ideas, a humungous number of scandals that ends with no guilty convictions. Then you can start seeing that the riots were not unexpected.

I am not sad for the damage per se. Of course, inhuman is the murder of the 15 year old, as inhuman is the burning of the properties of people. Inhuman is collateral damage in war. Inhuman is war. It goes down to the fundamental concept that humans are different than animals because they think before the act, because we value (or we should if we dont) the fundamental principle of respect of human life and library and because we try to become better... I am sad because many actions of people (politicians, police, people, rioting youth) in Greece are inhuman

Posted by A. Zervas December 16, 08 06:49 AM
161.

I live in Greece and i have read many views of people making judgements without seeing the whole pictrure. Many Greeks are not surprised by the riots, given the fact that there are many problems accumulating with the authorities being cynical.

First, the looting and burning is only part of the protests. Furthermore, there is a huge difference between destroying a bank or a private car. No matter what the means are, the bottom line that you can see in Greece, people are really ungry. You should see ordinary people from their balconies shouting to policemen to get out of their neighbourhoods, Police violence is an issue for many years in Greece especially given the fact that they never get any punishment in the courts. Last time a policeman shot dead a 15 year old in a demonstration, he did not spend a day in jail. As you can understand riots followed the announcement of the court's decision. It is very easy for many to write that these kids are spoilt. The minimum salary in Greece is no more than 600 euros. People with University degrees work for 800 euros per month whilst a cheap appartment costs at least 400 euros. At the same time huge economic scandals occur with all governments and not once any politician was taken to justice.
Last but not least, in these demonstrations the police is using a lot of violence, even to break peaceful demonstrations, making things even worst. There are many cases recorded in cameras showing policemen beating 14 year old girls after their arrest. Not to mention the irrational - illegal use of chemicals. When police is the first to break the law, always unpunished, how can anyone talk about legitimacy from the citizens' side?
Put all these together, along with soooo many cases that would take many pages to describe, plus the killing of a 15 year old and what you get is riot. As simple as that.

Posted by greek December 16, 08 06:51 AM
162.

Anarchy is not a solution, but rather a means. If the Greek people believe their government is so corrupt that legal means will not resolve conflicts of interest, what recourse do they have beside rioting? That said, every other means should be exhausted first.

Posted by ANONYMOUS December 16, 08 07:06 AM
163.

i live in athens, everybody is upset here, there is no reason to destroy little stores of poor people. the way some policemen behave is very bad thats why everybody wants to show their anger. i can't say every policeman is bad but those ''good ones'' should do something with their bad co-workers. the goverment stole a lot of millions. corruption is above all here. banks are out of control. so don't say that anarchy lives here. there are some idiot policemen who shoot without reason, even if it's accidental, (if i had a gun i wouldn't shot those who insult me), there are lots of politicians who take money, and most of all there are lot of people who want justice and democracy. no killing no taking money from poor people in the middle of an economical crisis. elections are not in the program of the current goverment so we have to wait.

Posted by mary December 16, 08 07:26 AM
164.

A lot of smart-@$$es here that are obviously clueless on the situation in Greece. I mean why not riot? It seems to be the only way to accelerate the fall of the corrupt government. For the past two years there is consistently a *big* corruption scandal every couple of months. Only in the last month we have seen some ministers resigning.

And why should a Greek youth *not* riot? What's the future in this country? Many people over 30 live with their parents because they cannot afford their own rent and living costs. I know of people holding MSc degrees that get payed 700-800E a month for a full-time job. Usually they are hired as freelance so that their employer does not pay layoff compensation or insurance (they employee has to pay it from his salary). Plus Greece is one of the most expensive countries in EU.

I do sympathize those who suffered damages from the riots. But most of the damage was implicitly permitted by the government who wanted to avoid a second death (either of a protester or a policeman) at *any* cost.

Read a few things on Greece before calling someone a "spoiled brat", a "punk" or whatever:
http://livingingreece.gr/2007/10/01/who-is-jobless-in-greece/
http://livingingreece.gr/2008/11/10/greece-usa-price-comparison/
http://livingingreece.gr/2008/04/04/minimum-monthly-salaries-of-eu-countries/
http://livingingreece.gr/2007/07/29/examples-of-jobs-and-salaries-in-athens/

The youths of Greece sees no future. "When there’s no future how can there be sin?"

Posted by Manolis December 16, 08 07:30 AM
165.

#7 and #16...Wow...Chicks are HOT in Greece.

Posted by Weka December 16, 08 07:38 AM
166.

This started out with mostly our youth being totally enraged and alienated by the continuing corruption (worst in europe), failing economy and educational system, etc, etc. So the pupils and students took to the streets in peaceful protests, the murder of alexis being the final spark like people said here. all this time, the government and the police did nothing to diffuse the situation. i cannot go in extra length, please read up if you're interested. so the demos became huge and from the first day there were problems.
The main problem -imho, based on conversations i had with the people on the streets these days and the things i saw- is people from the communist, anti-establishment (not anarchist, they make this distinction themselves - go ask them) and the parliamentary oposition parties and their youth parties have seen a great opportunity to advance their individual -and selfish- causes.
these might be purely political or purely violent. yes, there are people who just went out there to burn and loot, without giving it much though.
so what happens is vast majority of greeks who are dissatisfied by the direction this country is heading, are missing the point. instead of seing peaceful protests, they see their property (and livelihoods) being set on fire.
We only have the mindless (poorly educated of course) people organised in self titled anti-establishment groups who have been causing similar but smaller riots for the last 30 years, to thank for this. the result is that instead of more people joining the peaceful side of things, more sheeple join the ranks of the violent ones. In turn, to complete the vicious circle, the police is out to beat up easy targets -more 15 y.olds- instead of snatching up the people who burned family businesses, the national library, etc..
Something useful to know if you're a foreigner and looking at the pics is that about 5 or 10,000 people are participating in the riots. this number might be a little bigger. but the point is, the various interests behind the violence have stopped this number from growing to 10,000,000. And now we will just vote another corrupt government and give more seats to other corrupt parties, the ones who will better interpret what happened for their political -and then, economical- gains...

Posted by giannis from athens December 16, 08 07:39 AM
167.

Excellent pictures! This is how the young will act when they lose hope and get frustrated with nothing promising in their futures. This is obviously more than the tragic death of one boy; it's a symbol to them that things need to change. I don't feel that they are "spoiled" as some have said, but misguided and lost how to best change their situation. Where are their parents?

Posted by Sherry December 16, 08 07:47 AM
168.

Doesn't matter who's right or wrong. Just take a look at the girl in the seventh picture. How not to fall in love? Studborn and yet naive, like a filly in the wild, the vanity, her delicious, lascivious lips... the way her tight, ripped jeans bends near her crotch... and a greek nose I'd bite all night.

Posted by Philipp December 16, 08 08:05 AM
169.

to Sherry
Their parents are working for the banks, cos with 800 euro per month i don't think you can live normally so they work over time (with no Bonus ) with the fear of loosing their only job that they have!

Posted by til01 December 16, 08 08:06 AM
170.

All I see is commie skum accomplishing nothing.That's the kind of mindless destruction african americans participate in after verdicts set a white officer free in LA.Why not try and organize a better system?Riot in a wealthy neighborhood,instead of destroying your neighbors business and property.The inferior mind is an amazing thing.Stay in college ya red trash!

Posted by mustafa botswana December 16, 08 08:07 AM
171.

Have these idiots ever tried voting?

Posted by Rotten December 16, 08 08:07 AM
172.

Hmmm. Education... Just try to understand what I write below.

ΘΥΜΑΤΑ

What I write above is an example of how superior Europeans are. The major difference between Americans and Europeans is that Europeans are educated, they speak foreign languages and they do not depend on their domestic system to analyse the events for them. They can understand and they can research.

As long as you don't understand what people are saying in their native language, you depend on your government to translate for you.

Posted by Spiros December 16, 08 08:36 AM
173.

We are at war!!!
EITHER WITH THE GUNS OF THE POLICE - OR WITH THE STRUGGLES OF SOCIETY

No insurrection in history could ever be controlled, manipulated, or submitted to ideologies or political parties and mechanisms, it could never be merely political in content. Every riot, every insurrection has always been a social affair and has thus been deeply political in the broadest sense. After the murder in cold blood of 15-year-old Alexandros, a tumult of rage and discontent has come to the surface. A wave of excluded, disappointed, repressed, desperate people flooded the streets, of diverse cultural background, education, experience and class and were united in a spontaneous cry of a society that is being suppressed, deprived of its future, that is watching its dreams being crushed. This is a generation that has been systematically excluded from any means of expression, deprived of any possibility to decide for itself at school, at university or at work, through its growing alienation. This generation is choosing destruction as its own expression of rage and creativity. Rage is not just a feeling. It is a struggle for social justice. As long as there is no justice, there will be no social peace.

We are out on the streets as part of this society but also as part of this social rage. We do not seek to be the leaders of this discontent, we are not experts in violence. We are out on the streets because we are on Alexandros' side. Any one of us could have been in his position. We know well, from our everyday experience in social and labour struggles, in the struggles of immigrants for dignity, in the struggles of the marginalized and the prisoners for a glimpse of freedom, that the State and the institutions of power have always confronted us with the finger on the trigger.

We do not just feel hurt, outraged and revolted by the unjust death of a young person. We are also fully aware that, whether we are friends, parents or relatives, for each one of us and each of our beloved ones, there is a police bullet waiting for its fatal call. Guilty are the State and its uniformed murderers. It is they who are the true specialists and actual managers of violence.

They started it. They are the ones who are responsible for this wave of violence and insurrection that broke out with the murder of Alexandros. There was never justice for the murders of Koumis, Kanellopoulou, Kaltezas, Temboneras, Boulatovic, and of so many more immigrants...Social rage grows with State violence, chemical warfare on the streets (teargas cartidges shot directly at demonstrators), rubber bullets, beatings and hooded plainclothes policemen arresting demonstrators.

The explosive social situation these days could -and should- create the conditions and the consciences for a better future. But it could also create the conditions for accepting and legitimizing the use of firearms by the police.
How else could we interpret the riot policeman in Athens waving a revolver against demonstrators during the demo on Sunday?
How else could we interpret the numerous firings in the air by special-force policemen right after Alexandros' funeral?
How else could we interpret knife-flogging fascists helping out the police during their attack against demonstrators in Patras on Tuesday evening?
However hidden from the majority, all the above-mentioned incidents are true.

NO MORE HYPOCRICY - THESE ARE NO "ISOLATED INCIDENTS", THIS IS THE REALITY OF STATE VIOLENCE

COPS SHOOT TO KILL - WE ARE AT WAR
Whoever pretends nothing is happening has already chosen which side they are on

Thessaloniki, December 9 2008

Posted by Anonymous December 16, 08 08:40 AM
174.

Corruption in Greece has just gone too far , but why should we burn other people's cars or destroy their property ? All the images you see are like fragments that don't make up the whole. And yes , I agree with some greek who said : It's our fault , we vote and elect the same people again and again , we're worth what we get . The details of the boy's death are still not 100% clear , and people who protested against the economic crisis and the governement's attitude are a small number , others just relax at home and think everything is ok. Silly greeks , wake up and see who you vote for , the capitalists and those who ca find a job for your son if you vote for them in return .

Posted by Anonymous December 16, 08 08:40 AM
175.

Hello NUMBER 7, I would kill any amount of greek police to be able to stand in line and riot with her...thanks fro listening.

Posted by Pak D December 16, 08 08:42 AM
176.

WOW, #7 is of a chick rioting and she is still hot to trot... Where can I find a beauty with such passion and drive for destruction?

Posted by J.Kallis December 16, 08 08:44 AM
177.

the sad thing is tv just weaves its own story , the details of alex's detah are not 100% clear, most greeks didn't riot but were sitting in comfortable armchairs , and we are so stupid as to vote for the same b****rds again and again , wake up you fools , I 'd rather live in another country and not Greece . the Greece I love like all of us .

Posted by evros December 16, 08 08:48 AM
178.

What happend in Greece will not last for long(unfortunately).The system is so strong that we the youngest,will never made up a change in our prospectives.So what really happen is a small drawback of the God fathers just to calm us and then they will return to their normal pace.Civil revolutions in Greece normally ended up to political fights and not to a clear result,a new situation able to guaranty the general revolutions.Protestors we are all of us ,riots& vandals toke the "glory"...

Posted by voskaroudi December 16, 08 08:59 AM
179.

"holy sh*t if that happen every time in the usa there would be no country left."

Or we would have a hell of a lot fewer kids murdered by the police.


I think my favorite comment, though, has to be about the "peaceful revolution" we just had in the US to elect Obama. Yeah, man... lecture me about how the system works the very second you have a realistic third party candidate with a real chance of winning. Till then your "peaceful revolution" just switched around which one of the two permited parties is in power. Its the illusion of real choice.

Posted by Joshua Ludd December 16, 08 09:47 AM
180.

POLIXENI - you brainwashed idiot. Who told you that socialism and democracy are mutually exclusive? You're father didn't leave Greece because of the socialist programs, I can assure you that...If he is anything else like the rest of the diaspora Greeks who left in the 1900's he left because people were starving in a government run by rightists. Read a book.

Posted by Another Immigrant. December 16, 08 10:01 AM
181.

I am Greek and i live in Florida USA. It seems to me that the Greek police is trying to become like the police in the USA TRIGGER HAPPY!!!!!! 99.9% of police shootings in the USA are concidered justified. It hurts to see that the police in my country are becomming ruthless killers just like the Police in the USA
. Shame to the Greek police they should give greater value to a persons life.

Posted by Andreas Economos December 16, 08 10:05 AM
182.

Riots have NOTHING to do with the death of that kid.

They are either communists and/or anarchists (which is basically the same) or misguided kids who have been infected with communist ideas and cannot see how dangerous this is.

In the late 40s, the Greeks defeated the commies, by sacrificing many lives in order to prevent Greece from falling into the hands of the communist aggressors. It is a shame that history has not taught these kids anything...

Posted by John. December 16, 08 10:06 AM
183.

we fight every day against police brutality, against the corruption of the political system, against the poor education, against the destruction of the health system, against all bosses, fascists, and the rich liars of the media. We are students, teachers, workers, immigrants, women, anarchists, leftists, democrats, we are youth, we are direct democracy in the streets, we try to work out together when the bosses try to separate us, we create our structures, our free media and our word is true. We fight for new social values and relations, we want to "burn" the old world, we are crazy and in love.

Posted by greek lover December 16, 08 10:19 AM
184.

excellent photos BUT
the people with the hoods, throwing stones , ravaging stores and setting cars on fire, are NOT "PROTESTERS".
they are HOOLIGANS and they have nothing to do with the demonstration and what we youngsters are out in the streets for. they are ''planted'' there to ruin our cause...
please, change the photo descriptions

Posted by EvaG. December 16, 08 10:26 AM
185.

go and safely play your play stations, have a car, be social, save your days.
we let you know when we are done. this would probably be 50 years later, when you gonna vote for another "bush or clinton."

"He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither."
Wasn't it one of your fathers? Have you got any idea how your "supreme" democracy was found?
but then again..

"ignorance set one happy"
Of course you know what it is..

Posted by anarkhe December 16, 08 10:41 AM
186.

To Rotten
Yes we have what you have elected George W Bush
the most stupid president on earth ever existed and you say about voting
If election could change something their would be forbidden
And you know why Obama won?
so you could still believe in the same American Dream See your selfs!
You start wars all over the world and kill people who you dont even know where their countries are! Can you show on map where Korea or Iraq ? No its not an new apple product please stop saying idiots people who fight for their rights
wake up and close the tv!
You have only 200 years of history! relax we have seen what you have done

WAKE UP

Posted by Stavros Athens GRECE December 16, 08 10:56 AM
187.

i am a turkish citizen and i am supporting greek people. if they accepted this situation police would kill another child or person . i think nobody has a right about killing people. in turkey police dominate the public. i hope this riot will set an example for turkey. i think this is not about communism or anarchists. if they condone this event they always afraid of polices. i am sure that police cannot kill people in greece easily it is a very good example of public spirit. i am supporting you friends

Posted by alper yilmaz December 16, 08 10:59 AM
188.

Hey Smarmy,
I want to look up your long history.
Where I will find it?
I cannot find anything 600 years ago.
Why?

Posted by anonymous December 16, 08 10:59 AM
189.

Is there a difference between creating a corpse (killing of the young innocent boy) and "stepping" on one? There is no greater unjustice and pain when a young boy dies for no obvious reason. It is the time to get sad, cry, get angry, protest, and demand justice. But it is also the time to show that above everything YOU are a human being, different from those liable for this cruel murder. During the recent manifestations there were people that I personally regard them to be of the same level (if not worse) as the actual killer. Where is the pride of destroying national libraries and setting fire to civil buildings. Several innocent civilians were saved at the last moment from definite death because of this! And all of this in the name of Alexandros. I wonder if the young boy would ever forgive them... And I am talking about the thousands of common people like myself who felt the urge of lighting up a candle and peacefully went along to protest and mourn for him. Everyone who observes these incidents from abroad should know this. For sure we have sharp social and economic inequities among gifferent social classes, we have a musty educational system not in terms of quality of knowledge offered but rather in terms of infrastructure and available opportunity openings , we have ineffective and lethargic politicians and much more. But we also have a genuine sense of democracy and free spirit carved in our DNA for hundreds of generations. Do not take this the wrong way thinking that I refer to any kind of superiority over other people. It is a mere cililization trace of our race and history. Based on that we cannot stand even the slightest violation of these principles. But as sensitive we are on this issue we are at the same degree sensitive when this happens to OTHERS. So, there is no way I can agree with these pure anarchists who go out there to burn, loot, destroy and endanger their fellow civilians. Their motives have nothing to do with the loss of young Alexis. On the contrary, they are the worst of all people trying to capitalize on such an incident to promote their selfish and basic animal insticts.
R.I.P Alexander

Posted by Kostas December 16, 08 11:00 AM
190.

.In my eyes Demonstrations are fine, however it is the States first duty to protect its citizens. Therefore the riots need to be stopped and a more peaceful solution be found.
For God sakes just initiate new elections already so the country can do on with its life

Posted by the Exile December 16, 08 11:03 AM
191.

Just some inside info from a Greek (who has also traveled a lot around the world, including the US, where I have dear friends):
There is a group of extremists acting in the heart of Athens for the last 20something years. This specific group infiltrates every peaceful protest, demonstration that takes place in the city and (given a chance) starts to clash with the police and then flees to a university, where it can't be touched. This usually happens when the government needs to get out of a scandal or a difficult situation (FACT1). The police knows the members of the group by name, but hasn't convicted a single one of them (FACT2).
This time though there was a huge difference. When this group started the recent riots there was so much oppressed anger inside the youngsters (caused by the socio-economic situation and the unjustified death of a 15-year old - described in so many posts above) that made them explode and being misled to violent behavior. But these violent photos are just 5% of the protests, which are mostly peaceful.
I think that young people going out to the streets to protest is the most important sign for a society to be healthy and alive. Thank God, I was frustrated by the apathy of Greeks till now (including myself). I surely don't support the destruction of properties, but at the end we should all know that the government's duty (among others) is to protect its people's (tax-payers') properties.
I will not engage in any anti-US or communist-anarchist debate, 'cause they're all totally irrelevant. Just one remark for US people: I experienced severe apathy for anything that happened (during my stay at the US), but was happy to see you elect Obama, since it sent a message of change.
Idiot => coming from the ancient greek word idiotis, which means the one who does not participate in the community.
Finally, the guy that posted #90 must be a comedian. Obviously, he thinks that Europe is one country and then he advises a nation with 2,800 years of history to take lessons from a (long) history of 250 years. Just brilliant! As far as the election of Obama is concerned, sure I was happy with it, but his choices for key government positions do not implicate change of politics (yet).

Posted by Haris December 16, 08 11:08 AM
192.

Maybe america needs something to the same effect. In Americas short history we have only seen a few instances where the hurting public rose up against its corrupt government, and social structure. This is a country where the government is second to wealth. Where multibllion dollar corporations are asking for bailouts with money we have to reapy so they can give their ceo's bonuses. its rediculous, open your eyes.

Posted by shameful american December 16, 08 11:19 AM
193.

It's really funny to read all these comments from around the world. Most of you live outside Greece but you talk like you know what had happened here.
Yesterday was Argentina and Paris, today is Athens, tomorrow will be Rome, Madrid, Barca, London, Berlin and so on. The wave of change just began.
As for the "beach boys" from US, i dont think that all of you are idiots but most of you are victims of your own system. You live like sheeps, they tell you what to do, they close your mouth each time you want to protest and you like it too!
We have our own ideas, our own history, our own mind and we dont need you "burger boys" to tell us what to do. Eat your full of holysterine burger, clap your hands infront of your alcoholic- idiot president and keep on fighting in Iraq for the money and petrol! Sleep tight!
GREECE MEANS FREEDOM

Posted by comet December 16, 08 11:25 AM
194.

to all brainwashed americans
wake up.....
stop voting for democrats or republicans
stop thinking you are the center of the world
stop talking without thinking
stop living your american dream
this not the real world.police just shoot and kill a 15 year old boy without reason and all you have to say is "why they destroy their city???"stop annoying us and let us make our revolution...

Posted by xaris acab December 16, 08 11:30 AM
195.

Hello from Greece,

to the non greek visitors let just inform you that what happened in Greece during the past 10 days is a Media Staged rebelion.
Yes there were thousands demostrting loudly on the streets. There were million staying in their houses apalled. Yes there is great disappointment and frustration over the economy. Those who demontstrated were mainly rich youngsters rebelling safely. Yes there was a 15 years old boy killed. He was from a very wealthy family killed by a poor policeman with three kids. Yes there were spontaneous reactions . But there were also extremely well organised attacks to the economis centre of major cities. Yes there is a class struggle we are dealing with: it's the class struggle between the middle-upper class (the protesters/vandals) who for the first time are being hurt from the economic crisis and the working / poor class who through their hard labour keep this country still alive.

Posted by Spyros December 16, 08 11:35 AM
196.

Riot is different from demonstration. And what I see here is purely riot, looting, damaging other people's properties. Greek, this way you only damage your country image, you don't make yourself proud but looters themselves.

Posted by Garfield December 16, 08 11:35 AM
197.

Rioting never works. It's shooting oneself in the foot. Who wants to invest in Greece now? It's also shameful to see the government sit back and not defend people's property.

Posted by promixcuous December 16, 08 11:39 AM
198.

I love how people in other countries love to make generalizations of the populace in America. Just cause one dimwit doesn't understand international politics or believes that America is just simply one of the best countries with absolutely no flaws doesn't mean that everyone living in America believes so.

Pretty sure that if you ask around in America, half of them never wanted Bush as president or wanted the war in Iraq to linger longer. That's what happens in a representational democracy, the majority wins (which kinda sucks for the minority) sometimes with skewed results. Before raging on all Americans, how about you try and think a little, eh? Maybe not all Americans are what you think they are?

@171 - Good job, maybe YOU are like such, but I'm sure not all Europeans are. Stop making generalizations. I admit I don't know all 100+ European languages and could personally care less about learning them, but it doesn't mean that others in America are so "stupid". Sorry I have more of an interest in Asian languages. Sue me. I personally know a woman who is fluent in more than 7 languages of European origin. Pretty sure that's more than you know. Oh, and she's American. GG.

I find this entire contest of whether Americans or Greeks or others have a better government or a sheltered lifestyle. No matter how you look at it, every country has its own problems with its own stupid people. So please stop making generalizations.

I agree that the death of 15 yr old by the hands of the police is an unfortunate occurrence and that the men responsible, if they are indeed so, should be justly punished. I also agree that a corrupt government should be dealt with. However, this does not justify widespread destruction of property and others' lives. Perhaps the Greek police wouldn't be so inclined to use chemicals and such if they weren't being attacked and fearing for their lives? After all, the police are human too and not all alike. I would rather see a peaceful protest than a violent outrage such as this. Sure it may take longer because the effects wouldn't be as startling, but it sure as hell would make things a lot more safe. I personally find it counterproductive. "We are struggling in a bad economy and a teenager was just shot! That's the last straw, so lets burn down those places that offer these jobs or at least propel the economy in some way! Make those who still have jobs suffer with us!" Isn't that kind of like shooting yourself in the foot?

As a last comment, most of this was directed at those in the photos doing violent protests and also at those believing that Americans are all idiots. I realize that there are many in Greece currently holding demonstrations peacefully and I commend them all for that. It's sad that groups of noisy people usually tend to draw attention towards them and away from the majority, even in such horrible situations.

Posted by American minority? Who knows... December 16, 08 11:40 AM
199.

oh well, super.. we have enough democracy now and we are done with violence?
if your democracy is based on caging someone for years, you cant tell him to stop acting violently when he figures out how to open the door.
america "saved" its democracy by violence, killing people and disarming the threats at other part of the world. right? so what is wrong about disarming threats at their very everyday life, by aiming the modern world's guns; shop centers, banks, government offices?
these are the cages of poor people, wake up!!!
and hell yeah.. america does not feel like participating in the world community anyway.
and I still feel like rioting.

Posted by anarkhe December 16, 08 11:42 AM
200.

This is pissing me off big time.
Those nutcrackers that call themselves Anarchists deserve to catch the bullets that unfortunately hit the 15 years old boy.

They are exploiting a tragic death for their idiotic ideals - well WHAT IDEALS? CHAOS AND VANDALISM? The Far left and Anarchists are the Fascists of present time.

Cheers,

A 23 years old Dutch student.

Posted by Dennis Swiatkowski December 16, 08 12:00 PM
201.

And what if the protesters killed a policeman, would that give the police force the right to throw fire bombs on the protesters?

Anarchists and Socialists are just as brainwashed as Nazi scum. I feel sorry for the people who's property got damaged.

Posted by VivaHollandia December 16, 08 12:04 PM
202.

Pity for silly Americans...Is there anyone in the world that has this country as a model? Nobody wants to go there ! Excerpt of course all those miserable souls devastated by US economic & military policy around the world. In a country that just 50 years ago was a 1st rate racist state and expert gun-handling kids systematically assassinate their fellow schoolmates ( columbine is not the only one).
Kent university riots is not so far away when police brutally assassinated peacefully demonstrating students, neither is L.A. riots ,neither is Seattle demonstrations when government turned its military against its citizens just so they can witness themselves what they are doing to million other people the world around for the last 60 years !
You may not know it , but greece is the only European country having a national Holiday celebrated every year with a massive march to the American embassy to commemorate all the people killed and tortured as well as the enormous setback in our development due to dreadful American policy during the cold war era on our country !
Well, wake up and break some banks over there too ! Your banks and their golden boys brought worldwide economic crisis 2 times in one century.

Posted by Kostas Arzoglou December 16, 08 12:07 PM
203.

hahaha... not for nothing but blameing a country other than your own is dumb... and blameing a president, who's a puppet like the rest, isnt going to get you anything but hootin and holerin from all the people that look to blame... -- you dont get it-- and frankly never will its your mind that puts situations like this into terror and fright... i can write tons but wont... all i have to say to all you Greeks.. ... is it worth it? Is it going to help you? if someone else dies and your involved can i blame you? are you willing to take that blame and responsibility? ... Government isnt fair and just... honestly I love human chaos but at the end of the day is it worth it?

Posted by Piotr Wysoczanski December 16, 08 12:08 PM
204.

At least the youth lives

Posted by manolis panagiotou December 16, 08 12:09 PM
205.

Zalig!!!!!!!!

Posted by Lexie December 16, 08 12:16 PM
206.

This is kind of rambling but... What I find interesting is that so many of you are slamming the US and saying how terrible our political system is but then you say these protests are in response to new corruption that happens every few months in Greece. Well, why don't you try electing officials that aren't corrupt?

What I'm getting at is... before you blame America or tell us how bad we are, try looking at yourselves first, I'm not saying things are perfect here, far from it, but my first thought was, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Nor should people wearing expensive ski goggles, Nike and GAP clothing resort to violent protests that adversely effect average citizens over troubling economic times, clearly they aren't hurting.

Yea, yea, you don't want us to judge you based on a few people resorting to violence that makes everyone else look bad. Well don't judge us based on the actions of a few either.

Posted by Mike December 16, 08 12:17 PM
207.

Has any of the US citizens posting here read Henry David Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience"????
He was one of US greatest philosophers.
If you read it, you might start seeing things (in US, Greece, everywhere) differently.

Posted by Andrew from Greece December 16, 08 12:22 PM
208.

Man what a bunch of loser idiots... Not the protestors. the Anti Americanists. My heart bleeds for the protestors. I don't agree with violent actions but I can see that by the shear number and magnitude of the current events that this is about more than the death of a 15 year old child. There are deeper waters here and I pray for the people of Greece. As for those who blame the USA for this, and take this as a forum to voice anti-american sentiment I say get a life and quit whining just to make yourself feel informed and important. You need to take responsibility for your own actions and life. Blaming others because you are pathetic is sad. If you don't like America please return all the money we have given your countries in the form of loans that have never been repaid and assistance through the IMF. It's funny when the world economy fell it's America's fault, where was the credit and good feelings for America when the economy was good? Everyone blames Bush this, America that, Blah Blah Blah... Americans are smug .. When the world hates you out of jelousy for what you have no matter how much you try to help it's not smug. We are just tired of dealing with hypocrits. If you don't like the war in Iraq, sorry, but when a nutcase threatens us, especially one who has a track record of using toxic gas on his enemies AND HIS OWN PEOPLE, we need to protect ourselves. When he thumbed his nose at the U.N. and prevented them from inspecting for weapons that their own report said he had intentions of developing, then instead of crying and curling up in a ball like little kids, we acted. If you don't like that then too bad. If Sadam Hussein had threatened your country and it's people and then twarted the U.N.'s attempts to protect you, I would hope you would have had the backbone to do the same. Instead you probably would have run to the US for help and then criticized us when we did help and we always do. I pray for Greece and rest of you. Best of luck.

Posted by Tired Of Whiners December 16, 08 12:25 PM
209.

Greece rocks!

Posted by observer December 16, 08 12:35 PM
210.

Wow, this is fascinating... Honestly, I don't know what to believe anymore. I turn on the news and they tell me anarchists are destroying everything over there. But how do I trust the media if they are part of the same system that is currently under attack?

Has the world become some kind of major prison where the slaves of capitalism are allowed to eat, sh*t and die? Is the problem the free market economy where the rich own everything and pull all the strings by using nasty tricks and manipulation.

What system would you guys propose? I understand that there's something wrong with the way capitalism works in it's current form. But I wouldn't want to live in a communist country either. I think that wherever there's power, there'll be corruption. But how should people run a country in a way that benifits everyone, not just a group of elites? If someone has the answer please share it with me, or us. What would kind of system would you guys like to see in say, 50 years from now?

One more thing, smoke some weed everyone. I never heard of anyone picking a fight while being stoned! Greetings from Amsterdam

Posted by David December 16, 08 12:36 PM
211.

poverty,corruption,more than 100 dead from police guns misfire since 1974,rotten justice system,incapable politicians,poor education system,depression,unemployment,far-right police forces and their brutality,money worshiped as god,a cold blooded murder of a 15year old child,controlled mass media hypnosis and a certainty that things will get worse...these photos are coming from the future you silly americans and co. YOUR FUTURE...

Posted by not from this world December 16, 08 12:39 PM
212.

Looks like L.A. 1992.

This is not just for the fun folkies, this is what you get when your society is as f*cked up as in Greece. When angry young people without a job or even future are sick of being ignored.

This is gonna happen more often in the near future in western countries who stick their middle finger up to the people.


Posted by Hanenwürger December 16, 08 12:40 PM
213.

Everything has an extent. This pointless conversation should have one too.
Police and the government in other, for instance Ukraine, the country I live in, is even more corrupted and outrageous. But we don't cause riots all over the main cities, we live with it and it's okay. 'cause shouting for your rights every time you're pushed around or being looked at incorrectly doesn't lead you anywhere.
I sincerely doubt that Greek police units are more corrupted than ours, nevertheless, they treat you the way you treat them, as long as you don't do anything stupid, everything's fine.
I don't think that the boy was a saint, there is no reason for a cop to shoot a boy even if this cop is a brainless violent twit. Thiunk about that for a moment.
The riots in Greece are just an outburst of anarchists that have their knuckles itchy for another fight with the "Babylon".

Posted by Stanislav December 16, 08 12:44 PM
214.

Let us ............make love not war !!!!!!!!!! please .Don't kill our dreams, let us fight for theme.

Posted by Irene December 16, 08 12:49 PM
215.

So when you have 3 kids, you can shoot at a boy from a wealthy family?
(american democracy)
A person died and you still speak of investment, image of the country..
Unbelievable.
Transilation of the riot for (most of) americans to understand:
"If the state commit a murder, we smash the whole country into pieces."

I am so happy that the system in my country didnt improve as much as america and is not able to make me brainwashed as (most of) americans.

we can still throw shoes to face of Bush at least..
whether our rib and arm bones were broken. (american democracy again)

Posted by anarkhe December 16, 08 12:52 PM
216.

really really bravoo kids! i hope the riot won't stop.
thank you.

Posted by Turk December 16, 08 12:54 PM
217.

I would shoot to, if a group of riots would throw molotov cocktails at me. And to hell with all those left wing, i_dont_want_to_work, riots.

Posted by Hard working tax paying citizen December 16, 08 01:11 PM
218.

The most beautifull picktures, I'm breathless....

Posted by Anonymous December 16, 08 01:11 PM
219.

Anarchy is the most abused word on the planet. Not even 1/1000 of the people who use it have a f*cking clue what it means or what it's really about. That's what happens when one lets the news and the media of mass taming define important terms for him/her. Anarchy is not a letter on some f*ckin statue, a molotov coctail, burning, looting or anything like the above. The most simple way to put it is this... Go take a listen to John Lennon's "Imagine" and you'll be quite close to the essence of this most brilliant conception / ideology. Or if you're too christian to waste time listening to some atheist's songs, just reconsider your "saviour's" preaching without the sci-fi parts (gods, goats etc)... For f*ck's sakes people, try to learn what you're talking about before you get involved in a conversation.
Now, about the incidents that are still taking place in greece, it's so devastating to realize that there are so many f*ckers out there who are able to forget the horror of a cold-blooded assasination of a child by a pig as soon as they see a broken glass or a burning car in the news. Things are quite sh*tty in the country in general and now the people MUST stand up for their basic rights (that our "beloved" democracy is supposed to be providing) too!! When the authorities decide to cross the borderline right into your face, then it is time for the people to demostrate their powers. Violence brings violence. And it's all around us every-f*cking-day!! The ones that demonstrate-burn-destroy just the ones who are fed up with this everyday terrorism of all kinds of authorities. The ones who condemn any kind of demonstration or even revolt, can continue enjoying their big sleep...

Posted by Theo December 16, 08 01:13 PM
220.

violence is bullsh*t! allways and anywhere. id doesnt f*ckin matter if its in greece or any other place in the world. the really powerfull picture in this set, is the one with the boy offering a flower to the police!
there is much better ways to protest and make your point than violence and madness like what happened. fighting fire with fire is useless. its probably also not what alex would have wanted. the poor kid will be taken as a symbol for violence produced by brainless people. the policemen and the violence of the riot.

"smashing the country into pieces" is like smashing everything the greeks worked for"

Posted by Bastian December 16, 08 01:16 PM
221.

What's so "social" about destroying someone elses car? Or business? Destroying innocent people's property, even ENDANGERING the lives of innocent people (see pic. 12) who have nothing to do with it is UNJUSTIFIED. These people should be punished. Especially when burning a place down with people in it!

Posted by Brett Brenneman December 16, 08 01:16 PM
222.

This level of this protesting is unacceptable! If you want to make a point use your intelligence first, and as a last resort use physical action. This doesn't seem like a last resort. Are you protesting because the kid was killed, wrongfully? Then why are you trying to kill or injure ALL police officers. Are they all like the one that shot the kid?
That's grouping everybody together, that they behave and are the same thing. I.e. All police officers are killers. All kids are hooligans! All greeks are violent!
OF COURSE THESE STATEMENTS ARE NOT TRUE! Everyone is unique, find out what they are. So, don't throw molotov cocktails on police. That's someones father. Just like you don't kill some kid, that's someones son.
If things are wrong in your country, try to change them peacefully and if you must be aggressive, point your anger to the person responsible, not a group. That's how genocide, racism, and bad things start! USE YOUR INTELLIGENCE

Posted by bbmac December 16, 08 01:21 PM
223.

I feel sad about this kind of riots. What i see is people keep blaming on each others without using the proper way to solve the issue. Pull yourself out and judge a problem as a 3rd person. Riot is wrong, period, because riot can cause many other innocents death. Who will be responsible to those whom might loose their life in this riot? Greek has a long civilize history, but people today are acting uncivilized. A policeman shot a 15 years boy, so people put up a riot to fight again the riot troop (i guess people are assuming the riot policeman are criminals...), burning stores, banks and vandalism which might costs lives and billions of financial lost to their own goverment which were elected by their own people... what elsees

Posted by Peter December 16, 08 01:26 PM
224.

Fantastic pictures.

Posted by orion December 16, 08 01:35 PM
225.

And Brett who told you that all the torching, breaking,vandalism and stealing was committed by the protesters?
Sure there are some hot-headed non-brains in the protesters that caused part of those damages but i was there and saw lots of the ones who were clashing with the police also PROTECT small business from others "suspicious" people.
Some of them "suspicious" guys did run and hide behind the police bro.
FYI a small sample is this.
Also the bigger percentage of the people arrested stealing were not Greeks but aliens (not necessarily a sign of their criminality but also a sign of their poverty.)
Do i have to also mention the propaganda methods that a mechanism can use to control masses, distort their anticipation and shift focus to things that arent the most important at the time?

Posted by George, Athens December 16, 08 01:39 PM
226.

Spiffy Skipjack is Pleased!! It's about time the Greeks did some cleaning up. I hear the Italian mafia was about to move in but they got pinched big time this morning. Too bad, I was hoping to add them to The NINE IRON Group in 2009.

--Spiffy

Posted by Spiffy Skipjack Esquire December 16, 08 01:44 PM
227.

This is a Greek problem. Why does everyone drag America into it? Sounds to me like most Greeks posted on this message board are angry at Americans. No one is perfect. America is not perfect. Anyone posting a message that reaks of American arrogance is actually an anti-american pretending to be an American, just trying to turn the anger against Americans.

Just as other posters on the board of said that over the years, people have fled their lands to come to America for freedom, they express sadness to see their homeland struggle . They are living in peace in America. 94% of Americans are still employed. We are working to better our society. We are not perfect, but we continue to work hard. We care for others. It is sad to see corruption in government both in our country and others. We do not support it, and when we can, we lock up the quilty ones that we can find. We are working to better ourselves and hope we can assist others when asked.

To the people of Greece, do everything you can to weed out the corruption of government. Fight for your freedoms. I support you in your actions, but carefully direct your energy to the right place. Go to the goverment, and fight there. Watch your anger closely, rarely does good come from actions of anger, rather, be passionate in your desire for freedom, for cleanliness, for what is right.

Posted by justice December 16, 08 01:44 PM
228.

@171
I've tried voting. I'll keep trying, but so far it has never worked. I both practice and believe in nonviolence and while I don't think I'm an idiot, I am probably a fool.

Posted by Armed Pacifist December 16, 08 01:49 PM
229.

Dude, it makes me sad considering what has happened although i do feel the need to compliment you on these photo's...!! You did a good job with these images. Very intense

Posted by Ganitis December 16, 08 01:50 PM
230.

Come on everyone, cut Greece some slack. Look at what they have given us. Gyros, cucumber sauce, and hot greek chicks. We had the LA riots and I didn't see a picture of a single hot chick rioting.

Posted by Thomas Thumper Ginsburg III December 16, 08 01:50 PM
231.

Incredible pictures of unforgettable events!

Posted by Blower December 16, 08 01:55 PM
232.

I commend the protesters in Greece for speaking up. It's important to speak out against injustice and corruption. I wish ppl here in the US would be more active. If they realized what Bush & co. had done to the constitution with the Patriot Act, etc I'd hope they would riot. However, I don't understand burning down buildings and cars. You possibly just caught fire to another protesters car or home. Did you accomplish anything other than making a worse situation for someone similar to yourself... or their family? And protesting for the death of that 15 year old? Really? Maybe I don't have the story correct, but you mean to tell me that if someone is about to through a Molotov cocktail at you in an attempt to take your life or cause severe permanent damage to you, you wouldn't shoot them? If my life is threatened, I'll do my best to make sure I'm the one that still gets to go home to his family afterwards no matter the age of the person trying to kill me. How about this example... someone walks into your home with a gun and says they are going into your children's room to kill them... do you prevent it by killing the intruder or do you allow it? On the other hand, if the 15 yo didn't have a Molotov, then the police officer should be punished severely.

Posted by Aaron December 16, 08 02:01 PM
233.

Man those are some pretty trendy protestors! Protesting is so fashionable nowadays! Way to go "standing up for whats right" by burning, stealing, and looting. Those riot police aren't government, they are mediators between government and the people. And you want something different than democracy? Well, go and read how other systems of government deal with rioting people and social unrest....

Posted by Anonymous December 16, 08 02:02 PM
234.

Fantastic pictures
Don't kill our dreams

Posted by natasa December 16, 08 02:02 PM
235.

Lets generalize things about countries... Cause you know.. They're all the same. Right Grekos?

Anyone who has a problem with America needs to stop thinking about them like they're all plotting against the world. Start seeing people as individuals other then groups. Why can't all this rage and emotion be turned on to something better rather than hate?

Posted by Ronnie December 16, 08 02:03 PM
236.

I really think Rage Against the Machine should put out a new record just so they can use one of these as the album cover.

Posted by AndyRyan December 16, 08 02:06 PM
237.

It doesn't matter what country you live in, rioting is useless and only amounts to chaos. It produces a group mindset that throwing personal values out the window to temporarily support the cause is an okay things to do. There are ways to protest in manners that are far more effective and far less primitive.

To everyone bashing on America, simply because it's America, grow up. You have no reason to be so offended because of us unless you're truly jealous of what we have. If you're offended, you're in the wrong. You can't argue, though, that America, though it has a distinct lack of experience that the majority of other countries do, has managed to become a great power in this world, raising up a working society. You hate America for that?

Do you really think that the world applauds the fine example you've set? You've proven yourself nothing but base. When you feel wronged, you seek revenge. You lose self-control. You become primitive. It's not effective. It's not noteworthy. People don't look back on riots and think, "Wow. What a magnificent time. We were all so wonderful then. Saints is what we were."

Also, Obama is not a revolution. He is a soothesayer. Nothing more. Tells you all what you want to hear, but there's no way he can deliver all he's promised.

Posted by jack December 16, 08 02:10 PM
238.

Where's the unity here people? Whether you believe rioting is right or not - surely you can see that there's more going on here than is shown in these photographs? And here we are verbally attacking one another's countries. I am surprised that considering the world we live in that there are not more people with empathy for oppression. Why can't we all take a step back and look at the bigger picture? That this may in fact become our future.

Posted by Peace, love and unity December 16, 08 02:12 PM
239.

y'all so funny!!!! :D especially the argument "they are just kids, angry kids, but only kids..." :) WTF is wrong with your logic circuit board????

Posted by Quang Duy December 16, 08 02:13 PM
240.

i am 13 years old and i live in greece i must say things are crazy here we missed almost a week of school and when we went into the center almost all of the buildings have been burned to ashes

Posted by isaac December 16, 08 02:17 PM
241.

@ 226

Explain to me how conflicts in every corner of the Globe is an American problem. Explain to me how funding a group and providing opinions on problems in other countries is an American problem. Explain to me how having military bases on every continent is an American right. They (Americans) are very involved in many things that you are unaware of.

Posted by Nectarios December 16, 08 02:17 PM
242.

Amazing how anything nowadays quickly devolves into generalizing, stereotyping, and bashing America and its citizens.

A Greek kid was killed. There are ongoing riots in Greece. The post is photos related to, and of, these events.

The politics of America, the price of tea in China, and the weather on the North Pole have absolutely ZERO significance here. This is Greece's tragedy, and Greece's problem to solve.

Posted by Santa Claus December 16, 08 02:18 PM
243.

| 155.
@118
Do you know what communism is ? Have you ever read the communism manifesto ?
Quoting wikipedia:
"Communism is a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general."
Perhaps you should know what are you talking about before you post. The ineffective application of communism in many countries does not mean that the ideology is wrong! |
I know that is not me, but I have read the communist manifesto. You probably should too, because you obviously have NO idea what communism.
You know your generation is brainless when it depends on Wikipedia for its definitions of political and economic system. And ditto to you about knowing what you are talking about before you post.


| 154.
| Anarchy = chaos
| Communism = dictatorship
|
| The above are absolute truths!
what is also truth is
Communism = Fascism = Capitalism = Socialism = Religion = Dictatorship |

Once again, generational ignorance prevails.

Posted by Shocked December 16, 08 02:18 PM
244.

I'd first like to say I'm an American, but I wanted to do my research before jumping to conclusions. I enjoy learning from foreign countries.

I have to say that I support the protesters, they have a tyrant government, and they need change. For those that don't support them, remember that only a small percentage of these demonstrations are ending in violence, but according to the statistics a majority is dissatisfied with their Government. I hope Karamanlis does the right thing and resigns soon. Good Luck Greece and may their be peace and freedom at the end of your fight.

Posted by Jason December 16, 08 02:19 PM
245.

Wow, I guess the "ALL POLICE ARE OPPRESSIVE FASCISTS" attitude is in full effect here. And if you ask me, throwing a molotov cocktail at someone is a deserving reason to be shot at.

Posted by Relyt December 16, 08 02:21 PM
246.

Yup, democracy in its best is it?
Unforgettable event of how a death is celebrated by more destruction.
Hailing the words Democracy and Justice to justify destruction should only be greeted with tear-gas and bullets..

Posted by AlphaOmega December 16, 08 02:22 PM
247.

What a bunch of whiny dipwads you guys are!! I suppose if you have a peaceful protest and are ignored over and over, you just give up? THAT is EXACTLY how bad people get to be in charge of bad governments. Don't you people learn anything from history? Anything at all?

Posted by Brian King December 16, 08 02:32 PM
248.

I'll admit, electing Obama was somewhat revolutionary...I guess. In the sense that an overwhelming majority voted for him (even I did). But we're still leaving everything in the hands of the American government, relying on people who do not have that same concerns as a "common" man or woman, surrendering ourselves, crying "please save us". Allowing another Clinton in office and other repeats of the past. It sounds like a mouse trap to me. The thing about America is the people in power are very good at making us think we've "won" in some way, thus keeping people calm and quiet, but actually it's not much different than it has been. There's an agenda and it cannot be denied. Maybe we Americans do need some kind of physical revolution.

Posted by gwarorama December 16, 08 02:37 PM
249.

I'm an American, and my heart is broken.

It's amazing how so much destruction can be captured so beautifully in these pictures.

Posted by grogbar December 16, 08 02:37 PM
250.

The Dream for Better Days will never end. What will have to be changed in the long run is the lack of respect some people show in prejudice to the less protected ones. Sorry,I do not like violence but every once in a while people have to show they have got the power.

Posted by Anonymous December 16, 08 02:44 PM
251.

First of all, as an American, I have to say that Murat is an idiot. You have no idea what you're talking about, because, as you should well know, America was at one point in the Revolutionary War. It was violent, and the men who fought in it used guerilla warfare techniques to win.

Additionally, electing Obama was not a revolution. Electing anyone other than a democrat or a republican may have been. However, Obama is just like McCain on most points, and doing something that the system says is the right way to do things: like voting in a scheduled election for one of two choices, is not revolutionary. The actions of the Greeks should be applauded before being condemned, at least they fight for what they believe in. Americans gjust sit around and get bitched by politicians likeBush for years.

Posted by Marc December 16, 08 02:44 PM
252.

One of your great men,who fought for human rights,during the rioting 60's Dr.Martin Luther King stood in front of the Lincoln Memorial and stated :" A time comes,when silence is a betrayal".
There is a time in history,when each and every one of us,no matter his race,beliefs,social stature,education,should reflect above the need for great changes.
We should all fight for freedom,human rights,constitutional rights.
Before all,we should fight for our self-esteem.
We,people of Athens,pay solidariety to the youth,that needs to battle for a better future,burning a corrupted past.
Let me tell you that: "I have a dream today."
And let me thank you for your understanding,people of America

Posted by markos-athens December 16, 08 02:44 PM
253.

The Dream for Better Days will never end. What will have to be changed in the long run is the lack of respect some people show in prejudice to the less protected ones. Sorry,I do not like violence but every once in a while people have to show they have got the power.

Posted by Borges, Luiz Silverio Barcellos December 16, 08 02:46 PM
254.

Maybe he shouldn't have been with a group of kids who were hurling fire bombs at a man with a gun. You mess with a hornet you get stung.

all anarchy leads to is destruction.

Posted by michael ainsworth December 16, 08 02:46 PM
255.

"The ineffective application of communism in many countries does not mean that the ideology is wrong!"

No, but the inability to implement the idealogy is an indication that it is inherently unworkable and therefore flawed.

Posted by Brian December 16, 08 02:50 PM
256.

I am reading all the comments here. I am just a curious person from the Netherlands wundering what is going on. To be honest, after reading all comments, I don't understand it at all?
Is it only because of the kid? So many riots for so many days? So much violence? I can't believe it.
Corruption? I don't know, corruption is everywhere, here in Holland it is every day visible, scandals, everywhere, but no riots at all.
You have a democracy. If you are not happy with your parliament why not vote another government next election? And if you are still not happy, why not leave the country and find your happiness somewhere else?
Democracy is also accepting the choice of the majority?
But don't get me wrong, I sometimes think it is incredible indeed that the situation in the Netherlands does not turn worse than in Greece. That I also don't understand.
I just would like to get some real explanation why it has gone so far? Are you maybe scared for other things than only corruption? Are you people hungry, is it because of a mediterranean temper, questions, questions...?
I am completely confused.

Posted by Erik December 16, 08 02:51 PM
257.

It's amazing what people can justify to themselves. Act like savages to bring down the government. More power to you if that's the kind of country you want to live in. I thank God I live in a country with a little more self respect to not destroy itself .

Posted by NoNamer December 16, 08 02:52 PM
258.

As a Quebequer ........opressed for my language by a dumbass governement,
Cheated by useless laws .......when we decided to democraticly build a country for ourselves.
Submited by violance and religion in the past, Tortured by conservative and stupidity right now ....

Hail to you brothers and sisters who are searching for a country for the people by the people!

Posted by Derek December 16, 08 02:52 PM
259.

A lot of these Greeks and Turks aren't making the rioters look so heroic with their childish generalizations and stereotypes about Americans. How blindly hypocritical. I’m waiting for one of them to fart and blame it on America.
What I am dreading is something like Tiananmen Square.
Anyway, it sucks to see images of peaceful and good Greek people experiencing such a hell.
My most heartfelt sympathies,
American Soldier.

Posted by SSGT Rock December 16, 08 02:55 PM
260.

Wow. I was in Athens almost exactly one year ago as part of a college marching band trip. We performed in Syntagma Square. I can not believe how different the city is less than a year later. I can't imagine any marching band considering performing in Athens for a very long time after seeing these images.

Posted by Bryant December 16, 08 02:55 PM
261.

If you threaten me with explosives, much less throw them at me, I will shoot you. If the person behind you sees you go down and decides to fight, they will be shot and so will the next guy and the next guy until I am dead or no one else yet stands threats my survival. There is no reason to or for this riot. A kid got shot, yes it is sad, it is horrible but the guy who did it is going to court and will be tried. if he feared for his and his fellow's safety then I hope he gets off but if he didn't, then he should never have so much as drawn the gun and he should go to jail.

Posted by Jancen Dodge December 16, 08 03:05 PM
262.

Greeks, you can complain about the dynastic ambitions of America all you want. You can lament this country's meddling in the affairs of the rest of the world. You can raise your voices in outrage at hypocrisy with which it conducts itself, both at home and abroad. But the firebombs that are burning were thrown by Greek hands, and the government that is crumbling was elected by Greek votes. This is your problem, you must fix it. In the end, the fingers you point should be at each other.

Posted by alexandros1 December 16, 08 03:06 PM
263.

I'm very struck by the median age of those involved. They are young. It fits with the political and economic situation in Greece that the young adults protest, and they are usually the the first demographic to take up arms, but I can't help but feel the beginnings of a major generational rift. We are seeing the tearing of two generations, one - founded the modern world, think regionally, and have investment in the status quo and systems that sustain them; The other - globally-minded, constantly connected, fed up with the operative systems of the world that leave them at great disadvantage. Revolutions always seem to be led by the young, but for some reason, this divide seems to cross borders and oceans, as a generation reaches out from the one before it.

Posted by theService December 16, 08 03:10 PM
264.

Come to Macedonia , we'll save your souls ....

Posted by Vaskres December 16, 08 03:19 PM
265.

@155 - Communism is wrong because it removes the only thing that makes humans human: choice.

Communism must be imposed by force... because it requires zero devitation from the ideology - and what sane person would voluntarily give up their right to think and speak freely?

As soon as one individual seeks to attain advantage because of their greater contribution, intellect or creative ability, communism is ruined and those that rule (who clearly are not equal to those who don't by the mere fact that they can exert power over others) must supress the deviant by force.

And if there are no rulers, then there is no system of jusstice or enforcement of laws except by mob, and the mob must get together and stone the deviant.

In order to succeed, communism requires all people to be brainless, opinionless, enslaved animals who have given up everything that makes them unique, and have given up all desire to be human.

Since this is the inevitable ultimate end-state that communism seeks to achieve - i.e. the end of all human freedom - then communists, by extension, must be haters of human freedom, or, for expedience, believe that it should not exist.

That is why I keep and bear arms - because if you and your ilk intend on stealing my freedom and making me a slave to the state, I will either defend my freedom with lethal force, or, as a last measure, take my freedom with me to heaven.

I am free. That is my natural state. And you will not succeed in changing my natural state.

I am why communism will not work. You will have to exterminate me and hundreds of millions like me in your death camps to achieve your utopia of automatons.

Posted by Freedom December 16, 08 03:20 PM
266.

As an American I say, fight on my Greek brothers and sisters. Show the world that the will of the people is stronger than the will of the corrupt government. Show them that molotovs and stones can overthrow an organized army. Show them that even the most jaded, docile seeming people can act when a breaking point is reached.

Give me hope for my own country, that if things ever get that bad my own people will be willing to fight.

Posted by Kage December 16, 08 03:24 PM
267.

The images of youths wearing nike apparel, trend-setting fashions, all the while spraying anarchist symbols on the emblems of greek revolutionaries is entertainingly hypocritical. Then again, there's a wonderful irony seeing a teenager try to pass out flowers to riot police and being able to watch fires set by his peers.

Like it or not, this is not a revolution, this a mob. And, like all mobs, there is no motive, no rhyme or reason. It is basic, stupid, human compulsion. Give us fur and sh*t instead of rocks, and you can see very clearly how far we've "evolved".

Posted by hypoxia December 16, 08 03:26 PM
268.

Erik - you apparently missed the memo. Based on the logic of most of the Euros here, this is all America's fault. In addition, it's probably also America's fault that you're confused. And while you're at it, might as well blame America for the fact so many Dutch people are weirdos...

Posted by Seppo December 16, 08 03:28 PM
269.

people in london need to step against the system that says those cops didnt unlawfully kill that brazilian plumber on the tube. why they havent yet is beyond me. take an example from the greeks who know how to do business.

Posted by super six four December 16, 08 03:30 PM
270.

Interesting comments from both sides of the issue. If their actions are in any way justifiable, may I suggest that all these well to do kids (the pictures don't "lie"), start by burning down their own homes and their parents properties? it will be more practical and more sincere, especially now that they are done destroying other people's properties. But in Greece fault always starts where one's "acquired perks" ("kektimena") end, and of course it lies with the government. Providing of course that "our party" is not in power.

Posted by Homer December 16, 08 03:35 PM
271.

Can't help to think if this happened in the US, China or Russia the authorities would shoot everyone!

Posted by S. Huber December 16, 08 03:35 PM
272.

definetly this is great buch of pics ...

Posted by Juan Fernando Pacheco December 16, 08 03:40 PM
273.

tear down the wall.

Posted by british bloke December 16, 08 03:48 PM
274.

Greece lied to the Europeans about there financial situation when they took euro as a currency . Then ,they were given to organize the Olympics 2004 , and they didn't make a penny , they 've lost a lot insted . Then europe gave them the money , that needs to be given to the whole balkans just to ease them the out of their misery . In the last 2 years they've bought a 3 billions euros worth of military equipment from france and russia ( and none from US ). And they made USA look ridiculous on the NATO summit in Bucharest . They had to pay because they are incompetent , lying parasites ....

Posted by Jesus December 16, 08 03:50 PM
275.

I love these pictures, first because, they're beautiful, second because of the context. Well done.
Whenever I see a small group of masked men causing a ruckus within a group of semi/peaceful protesters, I sigh and shake my head. They're very likely cops themselves, planted to give their fellow officers a reason to use violence against the public display of righteous outrage the public is demonstrating. Happens every time.

One fine example
"Canadian cops admit staging own provocateurs at protest"

http://world.commongate.com/tag/cops

Posted by Head Shaker and Heart Breaker December 16, 08 03:50 PM
276.

the boy threw fire bombs at the cops, fire bombs can kill people same as bullets
so the cop obviously would shoot back. Everyone should stop being little babies blaming everyone else, starting riots and destroying hard working peoples property because you think its serving a point ?
what point are you trying to prove by rioting , looting and starting fire it just causes more pain.
moral of the story , dont throw fire bombs at cops and you wont get shot

ps for all the people who are saying america is ignorant , then why do so many foreign people want live here? and whenever the american economy goes down so does the rest of the worlds.

Posted by michael December 16, 08 03:51 PM
277.

While these kids in Greece are destroying their country in part to protest lack of opportunity, millions of poor kids in Asia are studying, producing, and starting companies to get ahead. Which culture do you think will reap benefits?

Greeks are distracting themselves with obsessive Anti-Americanism and other failed -isms like anarchism and communism. Check out the Chinese and Vietnamese shedding those very -isms.

Rather than irrationally blame the US (please, we're not that bad or that powerful), how about taking responsibility for bettering your own country, perhaps by being constructive rather than destructive? While some of these Greeks bash America, Asians are figuring out how to get into Harvard.

Posted by promixcuous December 16, 08 03:53 PM
278.

Just one word only : Floating the idea of vandals and the ideal of their democracy.

Posted by idem December 16, 08 03:55 PM
279.

S. Huber - sorry, you fail. Either blame America, or GTFO!

Posted by Seppo December 16, 08 03:56 PM
280.

it is sad that many of you americans dont see the true picture here... the kid was murdered point blank!!..all the students protesting are not communists..only america fears communisim..look at your own issues like your health care and your 9/11 government issues..stop looking at the rest of the world issues and commenting on them when you have issues of your own far worse than ours...at least when our government or slaves of the government being the cops do something to the dislike of the greek people we protest...not like you people that your education teaches you nothing and your media is propeganda filled
The Greek

Posted by Anonymous December 16, 08 04:05 PM
281.

Posted by Seppo December 16, 08 03:28 PM
Seppo, I was, in fact, just asking the Greeks for an explanation. The ones who blame the American's are morons, it's their situation and have to face it. In fact, I think that the USA is one of the few bright nations on earth, without the USA, the world would be a worse place.
Anyway, watch Europe the coming years, more political problems ahead. Especially my hypocritical country is facing a tough future.

Posted by Erik December 16, 08 04:05 PM
282.

I'm in solidarity with the protestors and the rioters. Put the word out on how we can help from outside of Greece!!

I'm eager to hear how constructive thought and work is getting done to deepen the gains from the protests (both peaceful and destructive) - as in: more than causing the government to call an election, but extending the radical network, making the wave bigger for next time. While you have intervened in the flows of state and corporate power. I see evidence of this constructive work happening in media photos, only in the background or almost off-stage.

The state can too easily contain riots until they fizzle, so I hope you make the most of this social revolution folks -- make spaces, squats, educate, build networks, get it ready for a stronger wave next time! Exciting stuff!!

Posted by Helen Biota December 16, 08 04:09 PM
283.

i don't want to argue about reasons for the riots, but i have to ask why they have to be so violent against ordinary people? i bet that person whose car was burned down has nothing to do with government, or owner of a destroyed shop is linked to them. i supported riots at the beginning, but when it became violent, you lost all my support. rioters showed that they want to put only new government for some selfish reasons of some politicians and nothing else, it has nothing to do with social or economical reasons. one more thing: looking at these photos above, there is a photo of a police man in flames. honestly, if i see anyone who is ready to do to me same thing, i will shot in the head. no questions ask.

Posted by Salvador Dalius December 16, 08 04:15 PM
284.

@ 268

I think the American piece to the posts was brought into the discussion in the first 100 comments posted. If you go back and read you will see some very ignorant and self serving opinions by Americans. The Americans are not to blame my friend, however, I DO NOT SEE THE RELEVANCE OF CLAIMING TO HAVE A SUPERIOR AMERICAN SOCIETY. Go back and read for yourself and you will underastand the Anti American sentiment. Greeks will have to clean up this mess for themselves. I believe they are a free group of people who are expressing their frustration with the current government. Most are doing so in a peaceful way. This is contary to what your TV is telling you.

Posted by N December 16, 08 04:16 PM
285.

I really like the police officer on fire. Let's just hope he learned his lesson! Oh and whoever own those burned cars. They finally got whats coming to them too. And that stupid statue. Just standing there all stationary like that. It knows nothing about Anarchy. We'll show it what we are fighting for!

Posted by yo gabba gabba December 16, 08 04:26 PM
286.

I was just having fun with you Erik :-) What I find interesting is that even the Greeks and Europeans here can't reach a consensus on the details around the shooting or the riots. Yet, apparently while they're here, most have found they can agree that they hate America and Americans.

How convenient...

I look forward to the next flareup in the Basque region so I can come here to view the photos, and then read about how America sucks. LOL!

Posted by Seppo December 16, 08 04:31 PM
287.

Why are people so racist? I feel horrible that the Greeks are struggling so much. But what angers me is their destructive nature. You are not protesting, you are LOOTING, STEALING, and DESTROYING. This is foolishness.

Also, by calling Americans "brainwashed" is even more foolish. Some Americans are uneducated, some are University students, and some are Nobel Prize winners. Your generalizations and bashing different countries prove your ignorance.

I love my country. God bless America and the world.

Posted by Chinese-American December 16, 08 04:40 PM
288.

284 - I think if YOU go back and read, you will see anti-America sentiments started w/comment #1 which pretty much de-railed the conversation before it even began.

You're right, America is not to blame.

Posted by Seppo December 16, 08 04:42 PM
289.

These photos look familiar. They remind me of Chicago, Detroit, Seattle, Newark, Montgomery (Alabama), South Central Los Angeles, Harlem, Watts, Kent State University (Ohio), etc., etc., etc.

Note to smug Americans who presume to criticize the citizens of other countries for using violent protest to ignite political reform: You are vulnerable to the obvious question: If the abolitionists, or the tenant farmers' lands rights movement, or the women's suffragists, or the labor movement, or the civil rights movement, or the anti-war movement, or a dozen lesser-known political and social movements in U.S. history had not resorted to violent protest against established authorities, what would the United States be like today? Why, quite a bit like Greece, I imagine (or perhaps Palestine, to use a better example) — only much worse. After all, the U.S. began as a slave nation that granted full citizenship, including the right to vote (not to mention basic human rights) to only the wealthiest, most privileged 10 percent of its inhabitants. Probably less than 1 in 10 Americans born after 1945 are remotely aware of that fact. The America you get to feel so self-righteous about today is the product of a short but eventful history marked by successive waves of violent protest by ordinary people who had little choice but to resort to direct action — face-to-face confrontation with well-armed oppressors backed by all the might of the state and its corporate patrons. Indeed, if the American colonists had refused to employ violent protest against established authorities to achieve their political objectives, where would the United States be today? The answer, of course, is: Nowhere at all.

Posted by Sean December 16, 08 04:48 PM
290.

@ gabba gabba

you finally showed your real reason for the riots: to cure your own frustrations. not to fight for something better but to express your deepest mental problems. i truly hope you will not be in situation like that police officer. you definitely wouldn't think like that any more.

Posted by Salvador Dalius December 16, 08 04:51 PM
291.

the tragedy of a young boy killed by cop ........
violent riots as a response
the tragedy of 11 Sept..........
Bush's violent response
the list is long: violence as a response to violence, injustice and tragedy
creates violence, injustice and tragedy
there are other ways
consider the possibilities

Posted by musikina December 16, 08 04:54 PM
292.

I agree with the Greeks, good for them for standing up. What the protestors are doing is in no way worse than what their government is doing every single day. Does the government really govern for the benefit of its people? If so, then governments are failing to do so all around the world whether it be in Greece, America, China, etc. What we are experiencing is a slow transition into a world revolution, where the people want "change."

Posted by Jim-420-4-peace December 16, 08 04:56 PM
293.

The only loser here is the one who is blindly patriotic to the point of sheer ignorance.
Tell me, what's the weather like over there in Disneyland?
(rolls eyes)
If there is a god, please protect me from the mentality of those bred in the rogue nation known as the U.S.

Posted by Victim of Amerikkka December 16, 08 04:56 PM
294.

we have no jobs, no decent salaries, they steal our money and nobody pays for that, we have no environmental policy, corrupt judges, a suffocating education system and on top of that there is an oppressive police which shoots our children. The hell with them, burn the bastard country down. i agree that many of the "victims" should not pay for something that is not their fault but unfortunatelly this is how riots are. You have to know some of the vandalisms are made by people paid by the government to do that only to change the public opinion but in any case human societies UNFORTUNATELLY have never achieved anything without riots, and riots involve violence, usually blind violence. This is just the way things are, UNFORTUNATELLY.

As for Americans, i do not blame them for their ignorance but they should not blame others for protecting their rights, which in many cases are violated by the US government

Posted by Tasos Ioannina December 16, 08 04:59 PM
295.

The pic of the burning Christmas tree is now my desktop background. These are amazing pictures

Posted by jvan December 16, 08 05:07 PM
296.

Really incredible stuff going on in Greece...Thanks so much for the pictures.
I understand the protest over the killing of the young boy
BUT
Was he not holding a petrol bomb while the police men were surrounded and trapped in their cruiser? Why must people over look this key fact? Regardless, crazy stuff. Also, I want to note that while you think you are going against the establishment and fighting "the man", you are really only attacking another country man who is going about his life as an underpaid police man, with little or no say in the government or policies in your country. TAKE ON THE MEN IN SUITS NOT THE MEN IN UNIFORM

Posted by Sean Mauceri from USA. December 16, 08 05:13 PM
297.

Posted by Seppo December 16, 08 04:31 PM
I know you were teasing. I am just a dutch weirdo anyway (that's how Australian's used to and Spanish do call me). Better a weirdo than a moron don't you think? And with double dutch or going dutch, I would prefer the latter, although neither of the 2.
Hey, I, my parents, and many other fellow Europeans are still very greatful of all the good work the Americans did to liberate us from the nazi's, pull off stalin's commis and help us rebuild our nation through Marshall's help.
So, keep in mind, not all Europeans, as well as Americans, are the same.

Posted by Erik December 16, 08 05:21 PM
298.

Can't we all just get along?

Posted by non sequitur December 16, 08 05:33 PM
299.

lol, the unwashed filth rises up.

their lives are empty and meaningless, and they need to do something to prove they exist. pathetic.

Posted by Euro December 16, 08 05:43 PM
300.

First: Smarmy what about what about the US Civil war, pretty darn bloody to get Independence from Britain, Canada did it war free.

Second: You stupid Greek protesters, HOW THE HECK does vandalizing the property of innocent store owners, burning Christmas trees which are a symbol of peace, and destroying private property help? Protesting is one thing, hurting your fellow countrymen is another. We are in a huge economic crises, and it is world wide, the last you need to do is cause more strife. The police officer that did the shooting is in jail. Let's see what the justice system does, and if it fails you then protest, but do it in a constructive manner.
What you are doing is destructive and quite frankly disgusting. The behaviour you are showing is barbaric and makes me wonder how your country has survived as long as it has. Everyone involved in this should be charged.
You're idiots....

Posted by A Canadian December 16, 08 05:45 PM
301.

@ Seppo

It's not the people or the welfare in America that we dislike. It's the violent and dominant position they take in this world.. If you take one big look at history, you'll see that America is much deeper connected than just the conflict they get in to "solve" it. What I'm saying is, is that you shouldn't pick a side. I don't hate America, but I do hate much of it's choices, like I hate much irresponsible(!) people/politicians and their lies.
We are all brothers, in humanity. I think most of us just want a peaceful and free existence. It's too bad we always have to fall back on thinking boxes, just because it's easy, just because in this way you can always point your finger and blame somebody else.

Wrote this with my best intensions.

Posted by Writer December 16, 08 05:47 PM
302.

Yet another pathetic "revolution" against the "system" that leads absolutely nowhere. It's just a sad sight to behold... Fortunately here in Eastern EU people are not so jumpy, coz we've seen real problems, real injustice... Greeks will eventually get over this incident and most will probably feel very sorry for their hyper-overinflated reaction.

Posted by Kestas December 16, 08 05:53 PM
303.

we have no jobs, no decent salaries, they steal our money and nobody pays for that, we have no environmental policy, corrupt judges, a suffocating education system and on top of that there is an oppressive police which shoots our children. The hell with them, burn the bastard country down. i agree that many of the "victims" should not pay for something that is not their fault but unfortunatelly this is how riots are. You have to know some of the vandalisms are made by people paid by the government to do that only to change the public opinion but in any case human societies UNFORTUNATELLY have never achieved anything without riots, and riots involve violence, usually blind violence. This is just the way things are, UNFORTUNATELLY.

As for Americans, i do not blame them for their ignorance but they should not blame others for protecting their rights, which in many cases are violated by the US government

Posted by Tasos Ioannina December 16, 08 05:53 PM
304.

OUR PRESENT TO THE WORLD!!!

GREEK REVOLUTION,
LET'S MAKE IT GLOBAL!!!

VENCEREMOS

Posted by agreekstudent December 16, 08 06:00 PM
305.

Seriously, this is why the US is so great. This kind of thing doesn't happen here. It may not be a perfect place (for sure!) but at least I don't have to worry about my car getting destroyed or my apartment being looted or torched. Those policemen are just people doing their jobs. Frankly, I think the Greek people are just looking for something to rally around. The whole incident with the 15 year-old is very sad and tragic, but let the policeman responsible face his consequences. There is no reason to injure hundreds and cause millions in damage....let's be civil!

Posted by Not Greek December 16, 08 06:01 PM
306.

Nice Troll attempt #285, a little more subtlety on the statue comment and you'd be there!

Posted by Lanier December 16, 08 06:02 PM
307.

i would like to ask a question!!
to tha american who likes the system he lives in:
weren;t the USA founded after (in fact,via) violent acts?i mean,there was a civil war!
and to greeks:
why does everybody goes "bravo" for the revolutionaries that fought for freedom?
cause,i mean, they FAUGHT!! they used violence!!
that is just to say,tha no social change can be achieced without violence.
So STOP sayin about PACIFISM.
DOES NOT WORK(at leat if you re not gandi:P)

Posted by greek student December 16, 08 06:04 PM
308.

its just like rock and roll.

Posted by Earlis December 16, 08 06:07 PM
309.

Today, more than ever before, life must be characterized by a sense of Universal responsibility, not only nation to nation and human to human, but also human to other forms of life.

-Dalai Lama

Posted by Dave December 16, 08 06:22 PM
310.

I WOULD LIKE TO START OFF AND SAY THAT i HAVE READ EVERY COMMENT THAT HAS BEEN LEFT REGARDING THESE PICTURES. Ii is clear that their are a multitude of opinions on politics, rioting, America, etc.
Being a Greek-American who spends six months in each country, I find myself relating and playing devil's advocate to many of the comments. We are, globally, living in an economic tragedy caused by a multude of factors other than the United States. To simply blame the U.S for all the problems occuring globally is not only inaccurate, but a completely ignorant comment by those who can not think critically enough. Remember, we all have succombed to the cheap manufacturing in China, India, etc. We are all guilty for promoting other countries other than our own for our economic woahs. Rioting in this case will not solve the problem. Instead of focusing on riots and violent acts, the youth of Greece should focus on instating another party into their government. Changing parties may not be the answer to all, but a change from the current catasrophy is needed. Greece is a beautiful country full of wonderful people and tons of history, It is shameful for them to be viewed as "out of control" and tirants around the world. It is time to take our history and philosophies into account and find other ways of expressing our dismay.

Posted by Dr. S December 16, 08 06:33 PM
311.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

This so sad to see what Greece is reduced to. I've been telling my friends this is going to happen in Greece, but expected it to come many years later. This is beyond the corruption of their government. Their entire socialist welfare state is growing so fast it will exceed Greece's GDP before 2040; probably about the same time as France and Spain fall to the Muslim Empire.

You, Greece, have been harboring a pro-communist and pro-socialist agenda since WWII, and refuse to let it go. The KKE backed STALIN of things, and yet you legitimized them after your military junta collapsed. Shame on you.

You have deep-rooted issues to sort out.

Burning other people's property is a helpless expression of your inability to act constructively. You sold yourselves out to your government long ago, and became servants and property of it while begging it to be a welfare state and take care of you.

I'm not sure what to tell you at this point. You have to figure out what real freedom is and decide if you want that for yourselves. Good thing your leftist government gave you a holiday to berate the US, and focus your frustration in the wrong direction. While meanwhile we fork over money your way every year.

I am an American, from a cattle ranch in the midwest. Before we get more uniformed comments about "Americans" I would like to say: unlike the jealous stereotypes some of you like to perpetuate in Europe about "Americans" I have yet to meet a European who can draw a better World-map than I can, and most especially in Greece. Most Greeks cannot even pick the right city and state for the capital of the US. (50% of Greeks I've asked say New York City, and over half of those place it in Washington State if they can even guess a state).

On the other hand, I know a bit of Katharevousa/Καθαρεύουσα and demotic and a whole heck of a lot about history and economy.

I hope your people learn accountabilty before it is too late, and your system collapses. I hope you stop trusting in the fallacy of armies and police to protect you, and arm yourselves. (with more than rocks) At least your cousins in Creta have kept their guns and powder dry. (Yes, I know, I've traveled extensively there too.)

We, in the US, have many problems right now with our politicians and our corrupt banking system (sanctioned by the socialist part of our part-socialist government). We have just elected a socialist president and a very scary group of people, much like the ones whom screw Greece over. This was an extreme reaction to dislike of Bush & forgeign wars and I hope the US can survive it.

We have a few things going for us though.

1. A Constitution for We, The People.
2. A Bill of Rights. Explicit, unalienable rights.
3. The Right to Bear Arms.

You cannot have the right to Life, Liberties, and ownership of property, without having the right to defend them for yourself. If you turn over your right to defend yourself to become a ward of the police or the state, you are no better than a slave. If someone else gets to decide when and where to defend you: you are their property. Plain and simple. Property, not free.

The one underlying philosophical foundation that started the US and will keep her going, is the fact our people respect the rule of law, not the rule of men, and the majority of the US believes in supporting the Bill of Rights and our Constitution (though they both are now in taters). And, finally: we are armed. So we are free to defend our lives against corrupt politicians should we ever want to.

You can at best throw rocks and molotov cocktails. While that's cute and all, it's not going to get the job done and all you are currently doing is harming your fellow serfs but destroying their property. Which, they like you, are unarmed and helpless to defend.

Good luck, Greece.


Posted by ae December 16, 08 06:40 PM
312.

i would imagine most of the supporters of these riots are young and ignorant of the issues that started it and the repercussions violence like this has on the innocent people of the country. the kids were already rioting when the teenager was shot. if you don't think tossing a molotov cocktail might get you injured or killed somehow, you are naive and stupid.

my heart goes out to the family of the boy, the policeman and his family, plus all the poor citizens of Greece who will be forever affected by this senselessness violence.

the

Posted by winelips December 16, 08 06:42 PM
313.

Great Pics

Posted by Καταραμένο Αροξόλ December 16, 08 06:44 PM
314.

I DONT LIKE WARS
PLEASE KEEP THIER PLACE

Posted by JOH December 16, 08 06:55 PM
315.

I am Croatian and I can see what power of people in GREECE is.
I love you GREECE just because you are trying hard to change the things in this awkward world but I feel sorry and angry because such things would never happen in CROATIA. Our people are BRAINWASHED by our own GOVERNMENT and media.
Our people CROATIANS have only APATHY and INFERIORITY toward better future because we are slaves and servants of our government.

Posted by Anonymous December 16, 08 06:57 PM
316.

There is time for fight and time for peace, we can learn from both and both need to be experienced, so we can fear of one and live for another. All of us big and small.

Posted by lolimin December 16, 08 07:07 PM
317.

Washington DC had riots back in 1968. The people burnt down their own neighborhoods to protest the assassination of Martin Luther King. Those neighborhoods still show signs of the riots. The people that still live there are more impoverished than in any other part of the city. While I don't condone the murder of a child by police, the people are harming the people in this situation. They will all have to live with the consequences especially in this global downturn. There is less capital to build these places up, and many jobs will be lost as a result of the riots. I consider myself somewhat of a revolutionary, but violence is only a last resort. I'm sure a more positive outcome could have come out of the childs death.

Posted by ORMR December 16, 08 07:09 PM
318.

I understand protesting, but why these riots when they only end in even more violence than the original crime?

Posted by Matt December 16, 08 07:11 PM
319.

Sadly it reminds of Chile since riots happen so often....

Viva Chile

Posted by Jorge December 16, 08 07:26 PM
320.

1. It is hard for us Americans to understand these protests because we come from libertarian cultural roots (things are not this way so much anymore). It is burned in our minds that every individual has the right to defend themselves when their life is being threatened and that force should only be used in opposition to force. That is why we don't really understand 100% why it is wrong for a police officer to shoot that boy if the boy tried to hurt him first.
2. Something is not getting to us in America. Our media is probably censored and the way it is being portrayed doesn't make any sense. Please, if you know what is really going on in Greece, spread it everywhere in comments like this on the internet so that us regular U.S. citizens can understand what is really going on.

Posted by Karen December 16, 08 07:26 PM
321.

I hate people who talk about this issue without knowing any of the issues happening in Greece before the murder of Alex. It's pompous and ignorant for people to come on here and say that Greeks are crazy, or that America is better, or that the police should take control over the students. do us all a favor and pick up a history book and learn something about the Greek history before you come here and say that all the Greeks are doing is senseless rioting, it goes deeper than that.

I feel like the Greeks are the only ones w/ a pulse at the moment because they have shown the ability to stand up to their government and demand a change. This could have never happened in the United States because everyone carries a gun and the police kill innocents daily. It's too normal for the U.S. to experience such events like what happened on Dec. 6; the murder of a teenager.

Has anyone noticed that since the police's murder, no one else has died in the 11 days of protesting and rioting? also, the anarchists only attack public/government buildings and multi-national corporations, it's what they've been known for. Many of those attacking small businesses and automobiles are actually undercover policemen, and there are photos to prove it.

these pictures are beautiful pictures, but they don't tell the full story. many of these commentators have proven they'd rather learn about issues based on pretty colors rather than putting themselves to read something.

Posted by Waiting for OUR revolution December 16, 08 07:31 PM
322.

Amazing pictures of an unfortunate incident. Rioters are capable of such destruction. I don't know why they wouldn't focus their protest/ attack on the police, and their place of operation. Instead there are more innocent victims, business owners, civilians, art. I'm all for fighting back, but this is just a mess. Mobs on the Simpsons are more organized.

Posted by Adam December 16, 08 07:31 PM
323.

Riots in Greece (35 years of optimism)
-----------------------------------------------------

35 years of "democratic" governments dominated by nepotism, favouritism, insider dealing and corruption scandals

35 years of deteriorating social services and a declining education system alongside the radical and religious conservatism (re)producing idle and corrupted citizens, anarchists, junkies and groups of marginalized people

35 years of people shouting for a change but in fact entrenching the debauchery deeper with their very own votes, lifestyles and neglected/spoilt children born within an environment with no prospects, no basic planning and no aspirations for the future

35 years of non-existent intelligentsia alongside the dominance of guided media, TV trash and trash deliberations, lifestyle marketing, consumption fetishism in both the middle-aged and younger generations

35 years of poorly selecting, poorly training, poorly treating and poorly rewarding the Police Force

35 years of academic institutions providing asylum to anarchism and petty crime while apathetic political parties, the justice system, academic communities and student unions have all been idle and useless bystanders

35 years with anarchism being the most active but destructive reaction to the total stagnation and debauchery of the socio political scene

35 years after the transition from the Colonels dictatorship to the unlimited freedom of the so called revolutionary "polytechnic generation" that became the current middle aged politicians and also the parents of the rioting youngsters in Greece

35 years of uncontrolled liberalization and petty politics inflating the bubble of social optimism for a brighter future that never arrives

35 years after the first riot at the technical university of Athens and the fall of the military junta,
the bubble of the well hatched self-destructive optimism bursts out …. and the day after will be neither trivial nor brighter …
http://bilwander-bilwander.blogspot.com/2008/12/35-years-of-optimism_09.html


ander

Posted by bilwander December 16, 08 07:32 PM
324.

For those non Greeks that don't understand these riots let me make it simple.
There are two types of protesters:
1. those that didn't have money to buy "Grand Theft Auto"
2. those that got bored of playing "Grand Theft Auto"

Both are great (greek) tragedies of life
You can recognize who is who by attire (like #17 Kid Anarchist with his $100+ ski glasses)
PS: now that I think of it, it's America's fault, you came up with the video game:-)


Posted by Chris Athens December 16, 08 07:34 PM
325.

A clear example of history repeating itself.

Posted by Nick December 16, 08 07:36 PM
326.

europeans and americans: idiots bickering over petty issues. both cultures destroyed all indigenous people. shut up.

Posted by who cares December 16, 08 07:43 PM
327.

WE ALL LOUGH AT YOU WITH OUR FISTS HIGH AND OUR EYES CRYING...
WE DESTROY THE PRESENT BECAUSE WE COME FROM THE FUTURE.

Posted by Sk@tiblaxos December 16, 08 07:48 PM
328.

Young Greeks are showing the rest of the world how to fight for justice. If only other "democracies" and peoples around the world followed suit, there would be no Iraqs, Afghanistans, no Bushes, no Cheneys, no Albrights and no Rumsfelds.

Posted by ΕΛΛΑΣ=СРБИЈА December 16, 08 07:50 PM
329.

People should not be afraid of their governments. The Government should be afraid of their people

Posted by Steve December 16, 08 07:51 PM
330.

everything is wrong, and when EVERYTHING is wrong this happens. remember argentina 2001.


un argentino

Posted by Alejandro December 16, 08 07:54 PM
331.

The Real Issue
Greece is an intellectually a very sterile place (many reasons, wont enumerate). There are no ideas of where to go next. And that's the main issue.

The Context
The "recession" in Greece has been going on from right after the Olympics of 2004. The latest blow is just what was missing. Maybe this is a warning sign for other parts of the world (where reason is also a novelty).

The Arguments (pseudo)
The rhetoric about democracy etc is quite post-modern to me. The last decade has deconstructed it anyway. The resurrection of even older-fashioned philosophies is even worse (anachronisms wont save the day). The rest about anti-this and that are just skeleton in the closet that come out for internal consumption.

The Solution
Wish I knew. Wont break stuff though. Fundamental belief in reason is a requirement, intellectual emancipation would help, and creative work and thinking

There is a very insightful article on the Economist that you may want to check out.

cheers
-Stelios

Posted by Stelios December 16, 08 07:58 PM
332.

If you throw firebombs at the police you should expect some sort of repercussion from it. I would say that using your firearm in defense would be justified in this situation.

Posted by piil December 16, 08 08:02 PM
333.

Haven't we learned anything from George Carlin? TAKE A $%#@IN CHANCE. These sort of events are required to run a solid civilization.

Posted by Ross M December 16, 08 08:10 PM
334.

If somebody thinks the correct response of a police officer being thrown a plastic bottle is to shoot a 15 year old in the chest has serious problems. And we are not even mentioning the chronic cases of unaccounted for police brutality.

Of course, riots do not generally happen in the US. Like LA in the 1990s with over 50 people dead, happened in another pro socialist banana republic.

Posted by Sotiris December 16, 08 08:12 PM
335.

To everyone thats saying "O this is bad cause its a Riot" crap your wrong this aint a riot its a REVOLUTION and if you live in the States its about time we have our own, when are people gonna stop walking around like machines and letting other people run your life?


Posted by * December 16, 08 08:13 PM
336.

I'm amazed at how many people find these riots incomprehensible. When people are confronted with their own powerlessness, they will find a way to reassert themselves. Not only is the Greek government listening, but now the world, and all that had to happen was a couple of bonfires. When the government is revolting, the people will follow suit.

Posted by JL December 16, 08 08:17 PM
337.

The most stupid thing i have read in this forum, is people trying to undermine other nations people.... How stupid are you guys?!?!?!?! What made you hate the American Nation??? The acts of their politicians? As if your politicians are better....
Get over your selves and lets all demand better conditions of life for EVERYONE...
Lets never hear again of a dead child, not only from a bullet, but also from starvation that most children die of in the world.
WE can do it, if we really want to....

Posted by Antonios December 16, 08 08:22 PM
338.

to Victim of Amerikkka... . It was a little cloudy today , highs in mid 60's.
other than that, your an asshat. any body that RIOTS... is an asshat. its no way to respond. to bad you live in a third world country and have no clue as to the weather...

Posted by overkillbill December 16, 08 08:31 PM
339.

"It is when we forget God that tyrants form their chains."
-Patrick Henry

I've read posts saying the problem is this or that. All the problems that have been stated are mere symptoms of a greater problem. When are we going to learn from history? The major downfall of the Roman Empire was their Godlessness in every facet of their lives. We preach the seperation of church and state as a constitutional fact, when it is not. The state has replaced our God. We rely on the state to secure our jobs and now our heatlhcare. So now we look to the goverment for our news. WE censor news stories. I have not heard about these riots at all on the major news networks or radios. Can no one see we are being manipulated? Violence in and of itself is not wrong. There is a proper place for it. We need to model Ghandi and MLK jr. They have had more positive lasting legacies than anyone has ahd that used violence as their major motivator.
My point is, when will we learn? History is our best teacher and when it tells us that when we forget God Bad things happen and life does not function.

Posted by MrGibby December 16, 08 08:32 PM
340.

reading the post I end in this conclusion:

as always do...americans "talk" and put their nose in other's people business.. and they don't know what they say...and still they believe they are right...guys stay at home! (your home)

Posted by Alejandro December 16, 08 08:32 PM
341.

FREE ME FROM THIS PLACE. I am an American, and all I know is here. But all I see is corruption. A Government that spend my money to go to a war that I am against, and continues to use my money to do so. I am of legal voting age but no one has asked me what i think about the war. And even if they did, what would they care? I want to own my own land, but Eminent Domain has deprived me of ever being able to fully own my own land.

I refuse to watch t.v. and I refuse to "upgrade to Digital". How can a government tell you what kind of t.v. to but and you blindly go with it. What health issues did this former type of t.v. cause? What was wrong with it? Hmm? So what if it looks better, did a government ever tell you to get rid of a black and white tv??? Yet you do this without questioning it.

What about the "Bail out" of companies the American public refused to purchase from? Why should a boycotted company that has only produced environmentally hazardous cars be given money simply because they are failing? With no limitations and no changes made to its products. It will simply fail again. Obviously.

So why don't we revolt or reform in America? Because the logical are a minority. Because we just don't know how. Because we are just too scared. So I commend these Students for STANDING UP. I hope they can wake some more people up to reality.

Yes, I am upset when I think about just how much I could legally be monitored. And yes I am upset when people are blinded by money. Blinded by THINGS. I don't want mass produced plastics, chemicals, drugs, politicians. I want to live simply on my own land, produce my own food, barter and have life be my "job". I am not a robot, I don't need to sign my life away to work for someone else and have nothing to show for it. I want this world to survive and I want my children to have a home for their families. Not pay to inherit my house, as the case is now. We have enough good here to last a very long time, we have houses built for two that can house more than 12.

I can only live for myself. So, wish me luck. I will not riot alone, I will riot the best way I know, by living through example and speaking up for human rights. If it get me nowhere, I will atleast die happy and die free.

Posted by Discontent American December 16, 08 08:32 PM
342.

I really don't see these as being very productive riots... it looks like a bunch of hipsters breaking stuff 'cause they don't have much else to do.

If you have a beef against the government don't torch your local department stores and banks - that's totally counterproductive.

Posted by bryce December 16, 08 08:39 PM
343.

@296

He WASN'T holding or throwing a firebomb. He just stood in front of the group yelling. According to the witnesses someone threw a plastic bottle. That's it. There is even a HOME VIDEO of the murder and although it's not top quality a firebomb would be visible on that!

Posted by just some info December 16, 08 08:39 PM
344.

'Seriously, this is why the US is so great. This kind of thing doesn't happen here'.

Right, and it happens in places of the world where you decide to start a war...that's much better!And what is the other guy above saying?It is better to have guns than in Greece,so you can protect yourselves?What are you firing cowboys?...I can recall incidents of murders by guns even in schools in America.Is this the way to protect and having justice rather than demanding your rights from the government?

I don't know what you people have heard,but that kid never threw a molotov or anything.He was just the victim of a corrupt system, shot and killed by a madman

Posted by a Greek December 16, 08 08:40 PM
345.

to "ae"
my gosh man!!!!
we all know about your RIGHTS in holly america
of course we do
i just cant help noticing GUANTANAMO!!!
for gods sake,are you that ignorant???????
people were kidnapped after the september 11, people who were jailed just because they were muslim!!!and were not tried,or accused for something in particular....and then one day,they were finally set free!!!!!!!!!!google it man!!!!

Posted by greek(but doesnt matter) student December 16, 08 08:41 PM
346.

Awesome pictures, you have some amazing skills mate, a pretty bad event though feel sorry for the innocent people having to go through that

Posted by Ladu December 16, 08 08:43 PM
347.

When protests reach this point, becoming riots, it's basically war--the people against the systems of order (which include government, the police, and business). Inherently, it's not organised, and lacks restraint. People on this forum have expressed confusion as to why people would burn down a building potentially belonging to a fellow protester. The only think i can say to that is: confusion indeed. Protests are events which often begin with organisers, with plans, and with restraint. For example, declaring that a protest is intended to be peaceful, and admonishing participants to live up to that goal. When rage gets bottled up to the extent it has in Greece, however, chaos quickly takes hold, and any attempt to rationalise the actions of the mob is utterly pointless. It's a strange phenomenon among human beings, but it's existed since our very beginnings.

Regardless, the photographer has my complete, slackjawed admiration. Truly amazing work, and no doubt at great personal risk.

Posted by J. Brandon Loberg December 16, 08 08:44 PM
348.

It seems to be about time the military steps in.

Posted by lollercaust December 16, 08 08:50 PM
349.

JUST TO MAKE THINGS STRAIGHT!
the boy shot dead DID NOT hold a PETROL BOMB!
its not even what the policeman is saying!so,it is nevertheless, false.its a lie!
just to get things straight,so you are not fooled!

Posted by greek(but doesnt matter) student December 16, 08 09:06 PM
350.

You pathetic american morons... Keep commenting on protesting from the safety of your couch... Until when will you be safe there, can you tell me? Or you think your stupid gun will save you? You are more primitive than us, you have no sense of social struggle, social connection, solidarity... The kid who was murdered had no weapon, no molotov, no stone, nothing. There was no threat to the cops. They came up to the group of kids, hungry for blood. Stop believing your bullshit mass media... Grow up and don't let others chew your food before you swallow it. The world is changing, I don't mean the Obama's change. If you still want to be the arrogant pigs you like to be, thinking that you know better than anyone else just because you're currently (not so much anymore) all-powerful, then the world will just move on without you and your silly empire, to something new and hopefully better. Learn modern greek history at least before commenting, we learnt yours anyway... Nobody asked us if we wanted to.

Posted by 613 The Evil December 16, 08 09:12 PM
351.

Out of the chaotic flames, like a phoenix rising from ashes, comes The Order. And The Order will be born of the people's own rebellion.
Your leaders will use anything to create new laws that take your liberties away. Protesting with fire and projectiles isn't a protest, it's a war expressed with utter contempt for the "authorities". This type of social mode is favoured by rulers. Most governments will see even the most justified violent protests as a threat to the nation and will impose stricter anti-protesting laws or other laws that remove liberties given that the protest was damaging enough.
Take Australia as a case and please read the history. Our protests were violent and they imposed stricter laws all because we wanted to express our emotions as well as ideologies. As a result, we dug ourselves deeper into the hole that they started to dig for us and protesting is now only for the brave. Protesting violently only speeds up government executed inhumanity and the stripping of our natural freedoms.

Posted by Anonymous December 16, 08 09:13 PM
352.

Once again the greek are w00ting in Europe which is not -and never will be like- america. Fight for your right. Politicians are just whores. So keep replacing them ;-)

Posted by yankee doodle December 16, 08 09:20 PM
353.

i'm turkish, and support all of you. There are many people in Turkey who want to be at there.

Posted by A Turkish December 16, 08 09:21 PM
354.

Posted by greek(but doesnt matter) student December 16, 08 08:41 P
Sorry dude, they were not just kidnapped because they were just muslim. They were enemies of war in Afghanistan, members of the taliban.

PS: before you start yelling again, I am not american, but from the Netherlands and have muslim family (my sister, brother in law, etc).

Posted by Erik December 16, 08 09:27 PM
355.

A boy was shot to death by two men that should've never have had guns put in their hands, but destroying and defacing public property and ruining other people's lives? Not okay. The police aren't horrible people. They simply have a job to do, just like the rest of us. Some make horrific decisions, like killing an innocent child, but the way these people have responded is worse.

What are they rioting for? It's not peace. It's not because their angry. It's because they have nothing better to do, and all that's left is mass hysteria.

Riots solve nothing. Defacing property solves nothing.

Posted by Chelsea December 16, 08 09:30 PM
356.

TO ALL THOSE WHO RUSH TO CONCLUSIONS


we all pride ourselves for being intelligent. assuming you really are, you should not believe everything you read in the news. you should know better.

THERE WAS NO PETROL BOMB. THE OFFICERS PARKED THEIR CAR AND RETURNED TO THE SPOT WHERE THE KIDS WERE ON FOOT. SEE THE VIDEO, THERE ARE CARS PASSING AND NO PETROL BOMB.

THE VIOLENCE MAY HAVE BEEN EXCESSIVE. IT IS NOT FOR YOU OR ME TO DECIDE. WE ARE NOT IN GREECE, WE DO NOT EXPERIENCE THIS FIRST-HAND. DO NOT CONDEMN WHEN YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS LIMITED.

PEOPLE IN LONDON - MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE PROTESTED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER REGARDING THE KILLING OF THE BRAZILIAN ELECTRICIAN BY POLICE. CHARGES AGAINST THE OFFICERS WERE DROPPED THIS WEEK. YOU COULD BE NEXT.

Posted by aphel December 16, 08 09:33 PM
357.

Change is in the hands of those who want it. Violence is never the answer, but strong men with big guns will not listen to chants of peace. In times like these, be strong, be smart and run safe. But remember that if blood is shed, no matter what you're goal may be, we will all pay dues at the end. For every drop of blood and every tear, be ready to truly believe in your cause.

Posted by Jaime A. December 16, 08 09:33 PM
358.

Wow, absolutely stunning photos. I feel absolutely horrible for all the fine Greeks who have been directly effected by this mayhem. To assume that this could not happen in your own home would just be ignorant. Being from "peaceful" Seattle, I have seen the WTO riots which took place only a few years ago. I'm all for peaceful demonstrations, but it's simply awful to see the damage done by rogue individuals. When you think about it, it seems to just be human nature. Just as there are a few troublemakers who do not seek change, but only destruction - There are "toll" posters here who purposely only try to create conflict.
We must look beyond the borders and pay no attention to the the "troll" posters and the anarchist trouble makers. There will always be those who are corrupted, but we should stand together against such corruption, no matter where you're from. We're all brothers and sisters, let's not fight amongst ourselves and let's not stereotype others.

Posted by Yo December 16, 08 09:33 PM
359.
Posted by aphel December 16, 08 09:34 PM
360.

Um... how is vandalizing, stealing, and destroying innocent people's stuff going to help fix the corruption over there? I don't really know all about the issue and why it's all happening, but this is clearly not going to help. These kids are just making things worse in my opinion. Ok sure it'll call some attention to the matter, but couldn't they do that in a different way? Or at least riot and destroy government buildings?

Now a bunch of people that have nothing to do with the government have to clean up the mess these kids are making. These innocent people have to deal with the financial repercussions of their destroyed stores, houses, schools, cars, etc. What if one of these fires they set kills another 15 yr old kid (I saw pictures of a burning school up there)? Doesn't that make the rioters just as bad as the police???

As an analogy: a bunch of high school students are angry because their teacher (wrongly) gave them a bad grade on their test, so to protest, they go and TP or egg one of their classmate's houses. How will this help anything??? It just succeeds in getting everyone pissed off at them and doesn't help the situation at all.

Posted by Claire December 16, 08 09:36 PM
361.

I think it is good to protest unethical treatment and oppression. Fighting back after the murder of an innocent teenager is justified. However, the violence and destruction caused by the rioters is doing absolutely nothing good for ANYONE. At the moment, rioters are doing far more damage to Greece than the police and government.

It's easy to say that peaceful protests are a load of rubbish and have no impact, but look what good the riots are doing. The only thing that rioting has accomplished is burning Greece to the ground.

Perhaps I'm naive, but I like to believe that there are better ways to accomplish change and equality than by destroying the everything in sight. That's something children do.

Posted by Sarah December 16, 08 09:40 PM
362.

VIOLENCE IS THE WORST OPTION.. NO ONE GAINS FROM IT

Posted by DM December 16, 08 09:40 PM
363.

Although I do agree with the statement that we need to demonstrate that we still have power, I cannot under any stretch of the mind fathom how one could justify looting and setting fire to a locally owned store that has nothing to do with the current turmoil. The protesters are using the death of an innocent child to loot from innocent store owners and ravage the living quarters of innocent citizens, some of which don't even believe in the cause. If you want to get the attention of the government, go after the government. It takes a man to stand up to the government, it takes a pussy to set fire to an innocent bystander's car.

Posted by Mike Nicosia December 16, 08 09:56 PM
364.

i'm happy to see some people somewhere in the world standing up (i live in america, where it is very hard to get people to do so)
i understand though that the guy did throw a Molotov at a policeman, but i'm sure him being killed wasn't the only issue and that was just the spark
i myself am an anarchist, though i know it most likely will not work for a very long time in the world, until the human race has evolved more at least, because i have seen governments now a days do not work for the people, but for their own self interest, and for their own power, elections or no elections, democracy or communist dictatorship, its all the same at the roots, it is good to see my brothers and sisters out there fighting for what is right
for anyone around there
keep fighting
and please stay safe (though i understand the situation and it might be hard to stay safe)

Posted by no name needed December 16, 08 09:58 PM
365.

So many people that did not watch the news on Nov 4. There was a revolution in America that day. We walked into booths, kicked out the government we didn't like and went on with our day. We had to have a violent revolution some 200 years prior which changed the face of revolution. We do have the right to own weapons and the responsibility to use them to overthrow tyranny. But before we use bullets, we use ballots. I don't know what is going on Greece to drive these actions so I won't pass judgement, but you need to fight the enemy...not your brother.

Posted by James Madison December 16, 08 09:59 PM
366.

@283
You are correct Salvador Dalius, the victims of the protesters have nothing to do with the government. The ultimate irony of this madness that hotheads around the world try to sugarcoat with false intentions, is that one of the stores sucked in the name of Alexis was the jewelry store at Voukourestiou Street belonging to Alexis parents. This according to published reports.

Posted by Homer December 16, 08 10:01 PM
367.

the birthplace of civilization...how sad

Posted by plato December 16, 08 10:10 PM
368.

@ 341: Not everyone in America agrees with you at all. I mean by all means this war in Iraq needs to end but how can you compare that to the FCC switching the TV signals from analog to digital? In case you didn't know the government made a HUGE profit by selling that band to private industry and we will get way cool cell phones in a few years as a result. And you may not care about that kind of stuff by I sure do, and so does well EVERY SINGLE PERSON I KNOW. And lets be honest, GM and Ford and Chrysler make big trucks because they sell well. The F-150 is the best selling automobile of all time. By FAR. We should be blaming ourselves for asking for economically unviable cars.

Posted by RuNaa December 16, 08 10:13 PM
369.

I think that it should be agreed that this is a very complex, multi-faceted issue that cannot be understood in broad generalizations. There are thousands of people rioting, and each of them has their own reasons for doing so.

Hi from Brazil.

Posted by scogle December 16, 08 10:14 PM
370.

FOR THOSE THAT STRUGGLE TO BELIEVE THAT THE OFFICER IS A MURDERER

police violence in Greece is becoming extreme. do you really wonder why the youths are rioting?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7782907.stm

Posted by aleph December 16, 08 10:22 PM
371.

Real revolution is beating the powers that be at their own game. Go to school, get your degree, play the game, join the ranks, THEN go about making a real change, from the inside out. That's how you empower yourself and your community. What they are doing in these pictures will only justify a continuation of the problems. This is not productive.

Posted by Carmen in NY December 16, 08 10:27 PM
372.

Embarrasing idiots. Greek youth have been out of control for years due to liberal policies brought on by the same politicians who have allowed the economy to be destroyed by socialist-communist thinkers. Now, because one misbehaving boy in a group has been killed by a non intended ricochet bullet..a country is destroyed. Police there should NOW be shooting every protester who starts a fire or assaults with a deadly weapon.

Posted by Kevin December 16, 08 10:32 PM
373.

Only in America....oh wait.

Posted by Get a job you Greek bums December 16, 08 10:45 PM
374.

I'm an American and I was reading Murat's comments. He can't be serious. You see, the reason we don't have revolutions like this is because we have checks and balances. If a police does something corrupt, anyone can get a lawyer and bring that cop to justice. So, don't call us pussies just because our system works.

Posted by Andrew December 16, 08 10:52 PM
375.

people need a cause to make them feel alive. I remember doing the same thing in December 1990 in Albania, next door. Yes, i was 18.

Interestingly in Greece the utopian idea of Communism was never consumed because they never felt the "warm hug" of mother Russia after WWII. Regrettably for some of University professors and their impressionable students, the longing for Communism is still there.

The only way humanity learns, it seems, is through its own experience.

what a pity!

Posted by Martin Cipi December 16, 08 11:02 PM
376.

Marc from the USA (comment 251, I presume you mean USA, you just write America but most USA citizens simply identify as Americans): As another USA citizen I have to say if you don't understand the gravity of the change in mindset in our country reflected in the election of Obama, it is you who is stupid. If you don't like him, vote for a candidate you like better, if you can't find one, become one or support on so that he/she will run for office in the future. In the meantime, support the president who suits you better in achieving that goal. If you don't want to do any of these things, you shouldn't identify as American, you're simply a whiner.

To Eric from the Netherlands, you're not alone. I'm similarly confused by this utterly extreme violence inflicted by the greek rioters. As Gandhi said: "eye after eye will leave the whole world blind."

Posted by Bruce White December 16, 08 11:04 PM
377.

I am an American...........I live in USA.....am I proud of our Country.....I would have to say slowly but surely America has lost it's Freedom...we were a country founded on god....but now they are taking God out of everything here. A Nation that turns its back on god will surely falter.
Our Media is told what to say and censored by the Big Wigs and who is paid off by who. We never get the whole truth or even half of the truth. America has been dumb down on purpose through our so called educational system, to our TV shows and our News media. We are so lost in our stupid reality shows that the reality of it all is we don't even know what is going on in the real world.
fat on our porsperity and excess that

Posted by Lisa December 16, 08 11:07 PM
378.

What the pictures don't show are the other battles going on. Shop owners are defending themselves against looters. Neo-fascists are coming out and fighting the Anarchists. Battle lines are being drawn for more bloodshed. The military sits waiting for the call to suppress all of it. Athena's streets will run red because our youth refuse to comprehend that neither Anarchy nor Fascism are viable alternatives to Democracy. These two groups are the true enemies of Greece. If the New Democracy party is so corrupt then vote them out of parliamentary and executive office. Look how many Republicans were ousted out of the American government in the latest elections. And lets face it, it does not get more corrupt then the 8 year Bush administration. Must we go through another Junta or can we learn from the past?

Posted by Greek American (Yes, we do care) December 16, 08 11:27 PM
379.

WOW, that punk prolly asked for it, you dont run at armed police officers with a burning cocktail in one hand and a sling shot in the other...

It was self-defense, I would've done the same, if a cop died guess who would've protested? nobody...

People are only upset by things that aren't expected to happen, 10 cops die in riot, eghh who cares, 1 drop-out high school student dies in self defense, world freaks out

Posted by John Smirlington December 16, 08 11:28 PM
380.

"If the abolitionists, or the tenant farmers' lands rights movement, or the women's suffragists, or the labor movement, or the civil rights movement, or the anti-war movement, or a dozen lesser-known political and social movements in U.S. history had not resorted to violent protest against established authorities, what would the United States be like today?" Just saw that comment in there and had to say....Most of those weren't violent riots...Granted there was some more violent factions in Civil Rights(Malcolm X etc). I do admit, violence is sometimes needed, but in this case I think its horrible the damage there are causing to people who did NOTHING, I can see the whole fighting the police, but burning random peoples cares and destroying there shops is not productive, also, if they wanted to go against police violence they should go about it in a peaceful way to shwo they are better, I know that not all of them are doing things violently but the one's that are should look at themselkves

Posted by Chucklemon December 16, 08 11:40 PM
381.

Car* themselves* Just needed those corrections so I didn't look like an idiot.

Posted by Anonymous December 16, 08 11:41 PM
382.

377.

God has no place in government.

Posted by Anonymous December 16, 08 11:48 PM
383.

For the people that think "it won't happen here": guess again. The global economy is on the brink of collapse. And when that happens... well... we're about to find out.

Posted by Human December 16, 08 11:54 PM
384.

"I'm an American and I was reading Murat's comments. He can't be serious. You see, the reason we don't have revolutions like this is because we have checks and balances. If a police does something corrupt, anyone can get a lawyer and bring that cop to justice. So, don't call us pussies just because our system works."

Yeah, when was the last time a cop was brought to justice in America? They protect their ranks the minute one of them gets in trouble making it hard for justice to happen. Oh yeah, I'm American also.

Posted by Jay December 16, 08 11:55 PM
385.

378:
To Greek American:

I see what you're saying, no one is innocent. The reason the Greek youth says your suggestion of voting in a new party will not work is because they're sick of voting in new parties.. it might be a new party but its the same government. We don't have true democracies in the world anymore, our democracies are bought and paid for. And the United States is the prime example of a society in delusion. If you think the choice between the Democrats and Republicans constitutes a democracy then you need to study what democracy is about.

Humans have exhausted every form of government ever imagined, and all have failed. In the near future we will see governments around the globe collapse as is already being seen in many countries. Perhaps then the problem isn't what type of government to use, but in fact whether we should have government at all. I'm not talking about returning to a state of chaos. I'm talking about a society which can not only sustain itself, but in fact flourish - free of government.

That's the purest ideal of anarchy. I guarantee the majority of kids throwing stones don't know what they're fighting for, but the truest members of that movement act with noble intentions - no matter how much you may disagree with their point of view.

Posted by Human December 17, 08 12:08 AM
386.

Frankly, I don't very well understand why this is happening. Why was the boy shot? Why is everyone mad? Just because of that one event? Or a culmination of many events and that being the tipping point? What is the point of this "rebellion" and riots?

From what I understand, the boy was holding a bomb (or perhaps a molotov cocktail) and a police member believed his life was in danger, and shot him. I don't know if this the exact story, but would someone be kind enough to explain?

A

Posted by Robert (Florida) December 17, 08 12:11 AM
387.

LA riots 1992, after the Rodney King trial
"The news of acquittal triggered the Los Angeles riots of 1992. By the time the police, the US Army, the Marines and the National Guard restored order, the casualties included 53 deaths, 2,383 injuries, more than 7,000 fires, damages to 3,100 businesses, and nearly $1 billion in financial losses. Smaller riots occurred in other cities such as Las Vegas and Atlanta.
Source: Wikipedia

Probably most Americans have forgotten about that already. It's not in the news everyday and some Americans have a very bad memory...

Most

Posted by PowerToThePeople December 17, 08 12:13 AM
388.

@ Salvador Dalius, that's called black humor, sarcasm is hard to portray in type.

These images shock and horrify me, I only know that a teenager was shot by police, I don't know the circumstances. But I am sure that they do not justify such violence, I hope that this conflict will eventually be resolved peacefully.

Posted by Tristan December 17, 08 12:16 AM
389.

Okay first please stop turning this into a USA vs Europe bashing because it's banal and irrelevant. Also stop criticising and generalising and bashing the Greeks from the pictures you see, because the fact is that you're asking criticism on something that you don't know or understand.
Some more facts:
-The boy was ASSASSINATED, there was no petrol bomb, no anarchists, no riots, no nothing, just some f****tard cop with problems at home drew his gun and shot at a bunch of children because he thought he could get away with it.
-No burning cars and breaking small businesses won't make the country better DIRECTLY, but like someone else pointed out earlier all great changes in history have been achieved through riots and war. It's very easy to say "stupid bastards are burning cars bla bla bla" but this reveals nothing but ignorance about the world we live in, as well as the history behind it. Just because you live in a rich country and you have food on your table everyday, and maybe a computer, a house, tv and xbox 360 it doesn't mean the whole world is like this, nor that you were chosen by god to be in such a privileged position because you're better than the rest of the world. The fact is that you belong to the tiny minority of the world's population that lives like this, the majority of the world faces starvation, poverty, illnesses, war and lack of freedom. The fact that you are in such a privileged position today is because your ancestors FOUGHT for it. So if you don't understand rioting and protest then at least respect your own ancestors who died so that you can be rich and play on your xbox today.
-And yeah, no normal person is happy with seeing a car or a small business getting burned down, but protestors/anarchist does NOT equal to vandals. The vandals are but a small minority of the people who protest, and in many cases they are undercover pigs/cops. So again this is much more complicated than you think.
-Finally, everything that goes on is a REVOLT against a CORRUPT government and system which has been drinking our blood, and raping us for years and years. Frankly I don't give a f**** about those banks and big businesses getting smashed up, they have sucked so much of our blood so it's practically us who is paying their insurance who is paying the damage. You see what the banks did to the US and world economy, how can you have sympathy for those thieves, and like Pavlos Sidiropoulos said it "[they are] full of millions while even God was starving". The death of Grigoropoulos was the damn cherry on the cake, we can't stand this anymore and we've been apathic for too damn long, they steal us, they rape us, they drain our blood like vampires and now they're slaughtering our children in cold blood?! NO! We're not gonna take it, we're not gonna bend over to let them rape us naymore! We want a change and we want it now and we want all those corrupt useless pigs out of the government. We want JUSTICE!

Posted by Asimos December 17, 08 12:17 AM
390.

@365, James Madison, you are a weirdo

Posted by PowerToThe People December 17, 08 12:19 AM
391.

Well, I was hoping my fellow Americans could actually learn from the Greeks here. Evidently, they feel they are, as they always do, above everybody else and know what is best for everybody. Apparently, they also know what it is like to grow up in a country on the other side of the planet and all of its policies and current practices. I say, good for the Greeks. We should learn from them. Let them have their revolution/protests. Stop being so ignorant as to think you are "holier than thou." People of the world could learn from this. Everybody always says to "stand up for what you believe in." Yet, when it comes down to it and people actually have the balls to act upon that famous saying, they are condemned for it. Hypocrites. The people of Greece have definitely earned my respect for doing what they believe in.

Posted by Conspiracy of One December 17, 08 12:24 AM
392.

Overlooked is that the communists are orchistrating the riots. You will not have freedom if they rule. That is the difference with the American revolution.

Hey, but 100,000,000 people have been killed by their governments in the name of collectivism, you're bound to get it right sooner or later.

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 12:27 AM
393.

Okay, they do have a right to protest, but the police were getting attacked by the boy and his mates, thugs. Now surely he didnt deserve getting shot, but it was do or die in a sense for the officer, the kid wasnt as innocent as he looks

Posted by Anthony (Australia) December 17, 08 12:29 AM
394.

As an American, I am offended by the lie so often parroted by my ignorant neighbors that "we were a country founded on god...." as even a cursory overview of the history of our founding shows exactly the opposite.

Sadly, my countrymen still support the barbaric and illogical practice of capital punishment while simultaneously attacking and murdering innocents in the name of the so-called "Pro-Life" movement. I don't understand the religious mind, it seems somewhat insane from all the contridictions between the religious dogma and the obvious reality that surrounds it. It's no surprise that without constant refreshing by preachers and shamen, religious beliefs wane in the minds of even the most apparently devout--consider the case of Mother Theresa.

I do know that no one can judge or understand the reasons behind the protests and riots in Greece from a few pictures and brief captions on a web site. However, content, happy people don't spend time protesting and rioting and it is the foremost duty of any government to keep it's people happy. And it is the duty of all people to not be blissfully ignorant of the government that serves them. The ultimate check on power are the people overwhom power is held.

Power to the People! All people everywhere, for they know when they have been wronged and they will speak out.

Posted by spriggig December 17, 08 12:31 AM
395.

I fully support the destroying of capitalist/state property.
I fully endorse the ongoing uprising.

Posted by OLI December 17, 08 12:31 AM
396.

I would like to know why people are saying "F*ck the Police." I just do not understand. The one man made a mistake. And if someone tries to break into your house/apartment, what is the first number you are going to dial? Without the police, there is no peace. Peace through intimidation and force is the only way for any Government to work. It was one child, and as sad as that may be, life goes on. Making hundreds if not thousands of others miserable because of the damage done by the riots is not the way to honor that boys life.

Posted by TheGuyWithTheFlower December 17, 08 12:35 AM
397.

all riots look the same

Posted by ydrydy December 17, 08 12:43 AM
398.

To understand why the Greeks are rioting you have to understand Greek history.


When it comes to politics the Greeks are ahead of the rest of the world at least three thousand years.
When the rest were living still on trees eating acorns and ruled by tyrants the Greeks were Free citizens (Eleutheroi ).
The idea of freedom is uniquely Greek. The Idea of slave (Doulos) belongs to non Greeks.
Often people become slaves to their own governments and aristocracy who become corrupt and begin to exploit their own citizens.
This is common in the world today. Whether the government is Capitalist, Socialist or communist does not matter.

The Greeks are no fools.

Remember it takes two Englishmen to cheat a Irishman. Two Irishmen to cheat a Scott and two Scots to cheat a Jew.
It takes two Jews to cheat a Greek.

The Greeks know when they are cheated by their own government and they are protesting and rioting. Is that bad?
You are naive to think they don't know what is happening.
There were so many scandals with millions and millions of euros ending in the pockets of the politicians and corruption running rampant
that something had to be done.

I know some of you believe in Santa the enjoy eating grass. I say keep eating it. It is good for you

Almost every nation faces similar problems as Greece but only the Greeks have the courage to protest.


Benjamin Franklin:
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security

The patriot's blood is the seed of Freedom's tree. ~Thomas Campbell

prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery. ~Author Unknown

Thomas Jefferson quotes:
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance.
The issuing power should be taken from the banks.

Thomas Jefferson quotes:
Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper.
Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle.

Seasons Greetings to All and Hope the New Year Brings Justice to those who lost
their retirements and eliminate corruption.

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 12:48 AM
399.

Wow. I seriously thought Greeks were smarter than this. What a bunch of Yoohoos.

Posted by Desolder December 17, 08 12:56 AM
400.

I have no sympathy for the rich and the governments who just give them more money and allow the middle class/working class to falter and pay for the burdens of a country. Too bad it hasn't happened in the U.S. yet.

Posted by Chris December 17, 08 12:56 AM
401.

Look at those greek police men....

If this was happened in China, you people would bash the country for its 'Human Rights issue"......

So if a riot occurs in China, the police men should not care and just let it be right.

Posted by P.Klein December 17, 08 12:58 AM
402.

To the person who said riots never happen in the US: I guess you've never heard of the Rodney King Riots? Much of Los Angeles was burning for days. I remember the smell of smoke in the air and ashes all over everything. Yes, it even included senseless looting.

I'm not condoning it, but it was such an emotionally charged situation that when the officers who beat Rodney King were determined to be not guilty, all h3ll broke loose.

It's too bad that they happen, but they do...all over the world. this one sounds similar to the one in LA.

Posted by been around December 17, 08 01:05 AM
403.

I am an american and I wish our people would rise up like the greeks have. It is NOT a good thing that our people just accept what govt. does to us. They work for US. Our govt. Steals from us, start wars of aggression, use our children as machine gun fodder so that the elite can reap the benefits of empire. Enough is Enough. We must all be free, we must fight tryanny at all costs and on ever front. We were given god given rights. We shall protect it with fire!!!!!

Posted by Sal December 17, 08 01:11 AM
404.

I find it amazing on this site and on a lot of other sites by the way that people judge other people's actions, not being bothered by any further information than a few pictures.
I don't know the complete story, but I did read Oriana Fallaci's Un uomo (= a man) and a few background articles on that book which make me understand the current situation in Greece a better. It seems to me that Greece has known corrupt governments for decades and from different dutch news sources I've learned that the Greek social economic situation has been deteriorating rapidly over the past 5 years and that's where this is about mostly.

Posted by jan December 17, 08 01:17 AM
405.

"1. those that didn't have money to buy "Grand Theft Auto"
2. those that got bored of playing "Grand Theft Auto"

Both are great (greek) tragedies of life
You can recognize who is who by attire (like #17 Kid Anarchist with his $100+ ski glasses)
PS: now that I think of it, it's America's fault, you came up with the video game:-)"

Actually, it was made by Rockstar North, a Scottish company

Posted by Cliffton December 17, 08 01:18 AM
406.

Truly impressive photography. Kudos to the skilled photographers and the editors of this page for presenting to the world the multiple sides, emotions, reactions and results of this protest with these powerful images.

Posted by Thom December 17, 08 01:32 AM
407.

Does everyone remember the story of the frog in the pot? Well, the Greek frogs are jumping out of the pot while frogs from other countries are comfortably awaiting to be ...boiled (in the meanwhile they can criticize all they want).

Posted by Jumping frog December 17, 08 01:35 AM
408.

One of the pictures shows a policeman on fire. I can't say the people who set him in flames are any better than the people who killed the child.

Posted by M.F. December 17, 08 01:39 AM
409.

305, you have your head up your ass? Do you not remember the LA riots? Or how about all the civil unrest in Watts in the 60's?

When people feel disenfranchised and oppressed, they will rise up and revolt.

Posted by clifford December 17, 08 01:42 AM
410.

Yes, some american of nazi orientations have short memory -- LA Watts ('65), LA, Rodney King '92, Harlem, Washington DC (Luther K), WSU, MSU (East Lansing, MI), WTO (Seattle, 1999).

Those who are "against violence" should not that the US was indeed founded on violence.... and much of the much-loved constitutional rights exist because of violence wayyyyy worse than this. Capitalism OPERATES on violence because private property is violence.

PROPS to greek anarchists.
the uprising is coming.

So you might want to review history.

Posted by Babel December 17, 08 01:49 AM
411.

"Seriously, this is why the US is so great. This kind of thing doesn't happen here."

Cincinnati Riots (2001) - 3.6 million in damages, curfews for three days

Rodney King riots in Los Angeles (1992, lasted for 6 days) 1,100 buildings destroyed, 53 dead, $1 billion in damages

Dozens of race-related riots in the 1960s - Newark, NJ, once a thriving city, began its decline into the big fat ghetto it is today. Kent State, Vietnam...

Is a revolution not a riot that builds towards something more organized?

Posted by max December 17, 08 02:01 AM
412.

ae - There have been PLENTY of Riots in USA, dozens of riots in the Civil Rights movement (between 1959 and 1965) of course they rioted Jim Crow laws and slavery were both crimes against humanity(as many of the imperialist wars that USA has committed for more than 200 years. In New York there were MASSIVE riots during the Civil War (watch the movie Gangs of New York) with HUNDREDS of civilians massacred by the Union Army(and that is not including the Civil War the first modern industrialized war in the world where casualties are enormous). In 1992 there where the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles which killed more than 50 people and injured hundreds and destroyed many buildings. In Ohio State University in the 60s there was a riot in which the National Guard murdered 3 students and injured others. In Chicago in 1968 there were terrible riots in which police indiscriminately beat people up and jailed them as well as the FBI murdering revolutionaries like Fred Hampton and Huey Newton etc. As early as the Republican National Convention in October there were riots and protest in St. Paul, Minnesota. There are plenty of more examples. Obama is not socialist the problem is that George W. Bush and his cabinet ran an unregulated economy, sold out to oil, construction, weapon & health insurance corporations, extreme pork barrel spending and expensive failures like both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama only wants to tax the rich a little more and give tax breaks to the middle and lower classes. That is not socialist that is having compassion for your countrymen and wanting a better future from them without bowing down to economic, geopolitical and economic benefits & interests. Greece’s problem is not its socialism or its welfare state(which is successful in Netherlands, Canada, Spain, France, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway etc.), its suffering from a bad global economy like most other countries in the world, it has high unemployment because of it but it can be fixed gradually and an oppressive police force that murders children and adults they need to be brought to justice. Those problems are inflicting many CAPITALIST countries INCLUDING the United States who its police especially New York police, Chicago police, New Orleans police, and Los Angeles police are masters of oppression and abuse.

Posted by Someone in Cali December 17, 08 02:08 AM
413.

The girl with the flower in her hair is a Greek goddess, wow! Thanks for the pictures.
To my fellow Americans: look at these pictures and take notes. The Greeks are doing what we should have done a long time ago. Maybe we could achieve a better life for ourselves if we were not so ignorant, cowardly, judgmental, and obedient. We need to stop competing with one another and join together. Remember, "united we stand, divided we fall"?
As long as we allow the Federal Reserve and the World Bank control our monetary system, and our government, we will never be free. Watch the Zeitgeist.

Posted by charles December 17, 08 02:12 AM
414.

These days in the U.S. rioters would be brandished "domestic terrorists" by the media.

Posted by everyone December 17, 08 02:22 AM
415.

I am a Greek 35, with post-graduate studies in US and a top managerial position in multinational company. This is just for you to know who is telling what. Thinking about the latest series of events in Greece I should say that for one thing I am happy: paople left their TVs and went out in the streets to defend their rights. In a wrong way? Maybe, but if the government is proven to be incompetent, corrupt and not willing to take any responsibility then a reaction should be waited. For my friend #311: I can really bet that I can draw a better world map than you and I also bet that more Greeks can do than Americans. I have travelled there and I can tell that although Americans are great people they tend to think that US is the center of Universe....Anyway, this riot now is expected to grow also in other major cities due to economic global situation but mostly because of the values our children have (at least most of them).
We have (our generation and the previous ones) accepted money as the ultimate good. We count our deficit but we cannot count that money given to education and health society cannot be valued. As the other American was saying about communists and socialists destroying Greece I can say that non of them had any government until now. Also speaking about GDP and everybody in Greece expecting everything from the state partially is right but you have to think that the state reproduced it and that we pay skyhigh taxes and social contribution that no american pays so we have to ask for something back! (personally I pay €25.000 in taxes and around €33.000 in social contribution annually).
I am afraid that the generation of €700 is going to go on because they have no real option left. Kids study until 26 (university, post graduate etc giving a fortune to auxiliary education system ) and then they are paid €700, maybe without social contribution, with a short term contract and they are forced to live with family to survive....
We all have our portion of guilt.....but we can also contribute to change our world....


that although Americans are

Posted by Fotis December 17, 08 02:35 AM
416.

I honestly have to say, go Greece! peaceful protest works if you want to drive away a more developed style of governing, like Britain out of India, (also driving a different gov. out of your country) but when it comes time to change your own, tyrants wont give up. not only does violence overwhelm the leaders, but it also shows them "if change doesn't come soon, this will get worse, and we will throw you out" a very clear statement if I'm correct. and there are more riots in the U.S. than most people know about. the L.A. riots were (somewhat) worse, considering people were standing on roofs with shotguns and rifles, gang wars, there have been dozens of riots in wisconsin, texas, all over america,

Posted by Jay December 17, 08 02:37 AM
417.

Forgot to say that there is proof that some of the people that really broke and burned properties were secret policemen (cought in video before the actual confrontment to speak with policemen for lomg - even explaining the plot afterwards). This is to saome saying that communists are orchistrating these events.......

Posted by Fotis December 17, 08 02:42 AM
418.

@403
too bad most of america is too lazy to get up and fight with you.

Posted by myself December 17, 08 03:18 AM
419.

One said...
"Seriously, this is why the US is so great. This kind of thing doesn't happen here."
What are you talking about? The US is so great? Peace in US is kept with terror! If something goes wrong the policeman shoots and kills, no hesitation, no delay. And for what the police cannot handle you let everyone have a rifle to shoot at somebody and claim self defense. 13.000 deaths by GUN every year. And you are not afraid? Not even 100 destroyed banks (cause it was banks that were bearnt...i am here and i can truly see what happens) are worth a human life.
I thought only the previous generations were so naive, and its sad o see that the new generation are such conservative and brainwashed people. Stop killing people and burn a bank

Posted by a_greek_guy December 17, 08 03:23 AM
420.

There are three distict issues here. One is the shooting, the second is the general unhappiness with the situation and the third is the government handling of the situation.On the first issue, the last similar case was the shooting of another 16year old who however threw a molotof cocktail on a police car. So by any standards, you have a lot more deaths by traffic accidents, ordinary crime or drugs than 1/23 years.The second is general unhappiness which has to do with the fact that especially young people face a very bleak future,as they will see a drop in the standrs of living. Thethird issue is the dismal government reaction which resulted in citizens taking matters in their own hands and fend off the vandals

Posted by scot December 17, 08 03:25 AM
421.

Bunch of left wing radicals, the police should have beaten their sense back into them.

Posted by sandro December 17, 08 03:33 AM
422.

I am from greece and i am a mother of a 16 and 13 yerars old children i feel a same of all this things i see.... it can be hapening this they can not not kill an distroy like this i feel so sorry for all, this is not the way of make a better world of our children!!!!!

Posted by Angela Rokou December 17, 08 03:36 AM
423.

hi there.....
u know some times its bad to say what u think without knowing the facts !
i want to say to the friend that said:
"The whole incident with the 15 year-old is very sad and tragic, but let the policeman responsible face his consequences."
here is Greece ! same situation happened in 1985....a police officer shout and killed a kid and he got away !
This time also !
As we speak government tries to find a way so the bastard will get away !

anyway....the facts as recorded by witnesses.

a police car was a target for a group of ppl that where throwing empty beer cans. The police car asked for directions from the central. Central says get the hell out of there ! They left but the Rambo police officer u shout the kid wasn’t pleased with that ! they parked the car and went back ! they didn’t find the guys that where throughing beers at them, but they found a group of 15year old kids that just came out from an Internet Café and they thought it was them ! started saying bad things to them and the kids (as kids) replied the same way ! So the cop said something like “no you will c”…aimed and shout ! directly to the boys hart ! and then he left like nothing happened…..
there is a bad quality video that saws that there was nothing going on there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_DXzqxzvnc

Now they say that the cop shout because of the riots, to make them scare ! but no riot on the video ! they even say that the cop never shout right at the kid but he shot at the air and the bullets hit something and went directly to the kids hart !

But the real facts of the riot is a rotten government ! u hear every day about ways the found to steal money ! secret aregments with the church …. And everything in Greece turns more expensive ! no government mechanism to help the weak !


Posted by noWAY December 17, 08 03:37 AM
424.

Picture 7, wow !
I can change the world for you baby !!

Crisis is here, rebellion is closer ...

Posted by Peter Pan December 17, 08 03:42 AM
425.

Being angry with the government is fine. After all this is a minority of the popular vote(42%) with a(narrow) absolute majority in the parliament. Which from a democracy point of view means it does not represent the people(but then again noone else does, to be fair). The issue is how to express that discontent in a way that will make the country and our lives better, not worse. This is the hard part. Because the opposition is no paragon of virtue or competence either. To bring about change for the better on emust know what one does not want, what one wants and HOW to get there. Protests alone or riots do not get anyone there.

Posted by Tom December 17, 08 03:43 AM
426.

Greece's children have actually the strength and guts to fight against the fears they sense like the majority of us (Europeans at least ).
These children ARE FIGHTING FOR OUR FUTURE(the only way they can)!

Posted by Gotzogiannis Yannis December 17, 08 03:44 AM
427.

Listening to people posting here flaming countries and not goverments makes me sad as they aren't smarter than that police humanoid that pulled the trigger.

On the other hand there are people that flame goverments without flaming people
that actually voted for them for at least in greece the last 30+ years is equally sad too.
One major thing on the comments on those pic's : riots were Students, Workers, Parents, Grandparents and some minorities. (if you don't get it why, well it will take several forum pages to explain).

I've also read a post that "If he was attacked (with a bottle), I understand why he shot". Well apart from the fact that those people need professional attention and should be isolated from the society cause they are Dangerous (in my opinion of course),
it is illegal in Greece for police officers to even use their pistol against people under 18. Which is a fact. It's illegal even to use it to scare them off.

One reason that made greek society (cause its about the majority of greeks, 92% think it was right) go mad is the " jardiniere :case" where 7-8 police humanoids were hitting a protester in front of a camera and they claimed he sliped and smashed his face on a jardiniere, while trying to escape. Those police officers aren't in jail of course, trial is still up after 3-4 years. So what an average Greek can see through that? Police being illegal it's ok. That should enrage All Civilized Societies, and Im using this word for a certain previous post about Civilized Societies etc. In short words about police. Using that kind of force is illegal in Greece. Stick to that. And its illegal BY LAW for people that still find it funny.

I wont go deep into financial state of greeks since its relative and Im the least capable to do it. Together with the world crisis these days (or years) none clearly can make a state for that.

In short words, The majority of riots were students (and im dam happy for that, I just hope they will remember these days when they make it through to the system)
there were buildings/cars burned, but not from the majority (seperate those two at the following posts please). Some people took advantage of that and looted stores which in my eyes are the worst of this case since they are spoiled a part of the protest and took advantage of that incident, but hey it happens worldwide too, i remember video's people crabbing TV's, VCR's while others suffered from a hurricane.
So, stop blaming people, try to understand them. If you don't, at least don't shoot' em

Posted by TheWall December 17, 08 03:45 AM
428.

im american and i am once again embarrased by my fellow americans. why are so many americans absolute clowns. some americans hold themselves so high and mighty above other countries. ethnocentric much...these guys seem to quickly forget things like hurricane katrina and the huge riots in los angeles in the 90's. you know those riots actually did do good. i in know way apporove of looting, but as history proves violent protests get the message across much stronger than non violent. after the los angeles riots the police fixed up many of the racial problems that lied within. In New Orleans the looting etc. forced the issue of how badly the the us dealt with the issue. without tthe looting not as much of a deal would have been made of the us's poor ways of dealing with the issue. whats going on in greece right now is not much different to what happened here. they are forcing an issue on the gov't that has been ignored for too long.

and even though some of you people that say thank god i dont have to deal with this sort of thing here in america. well thats because you're nice and protected in the suburbs. do you know of the incredible violence that occurs everyday in the inner city here in america which the gov't completely ignores. guess not...i know that isn't relevant, but some people are just so ignorant


Posted by embarrased american December 17, 08 03:47 AM
429.

That’s why my American friends you will always come second.
First of all you are a baby nation no more that 500 years of life history bla bla bla…and let me remind you that 50 years ago (2 generations ) black person were killed just because of there skin color. And now you are trying to give democracy to us? Come on… I used to watch the cups show there you have it just for fun.
Democracy every now and then has its explosions… at the end of the day it was only Alexis.. And not one human every minute.

Posted by Giorkos KYPROS (CYPRUS) December 17, 08 03:48 AM
430.

Greeks - we give you solidarity, we should be getting off the internet and getting into the streets with you!

The Greek anarchists who shouted "This is our life!" just before Army tanks and paratroopers stormed their campuses in 1973 is burned into the memories of many survivors, and so too now the memory of Alexis, the murdered and tortured migrants, the fascists who coordinate with the police, the unemployed whose bank accounts were undermined by the Karamanlis government. Those of us around the world who heard the shot knew that the bullet may have hit one person - but it was meant for us all.

This is now “the longest week of our lives” but at least – these days belong to us! This is our life!

In my city, banks are getting their windows broken and their ATMs glued shut. The rage that has accumulated since the banking system bailout had to be expressed and should not, by any means, end.

Worldwide solidarity – make sure American cities like the ones we live in never see another black youth or an “undesirable” get shot in the streets again. When the youth is murdered, the old people should not go to sleep thinking they do not understand today's youth or bicker amongst themselves before its too late. Why? Because we are the image of the future, we are the world's youth, we are world's students, and we are all working for the better world that is possible.

Posted by Cascade Youth December 17, 08 03:52 AM
431.

@305
Don't be such a retard, Like nobody remembers the riots in Los Angeles with the Rodney King bullshit.
6 days long and it was worse than Athens, and I quote "Gunfire killed 35, including eight people shot by law enforcement and two by National Guardsmen. Six died in arson fires. Attackers used sticks or boards to kill two others. Stabbings killed two. Six died in car accidents; two in hit-and-runs. One was strangled.
The violence crossed racial and ethnic lines. The dead included 25 African-Americans, 16 Latinos, eight Caucasians, two Asians, one Algerian, and one Indian or Middle Easterner. Men outnumbered women, 48 to 5"
People fighting against the police like this should be shot, if you are throwing firebombs and molotov cocktails to the cops you deserve to be shot, it's them or the cops. cops have guns. cop wins.

Posted by Kip December 17, 08 03:52 AM
432.

This is a 100% government failure. Because the government had its hands dirty
they ordered the police to do nothing; hell, they even had the prosecutor charge the cop with voluntary manslaughter BEFORE they even had the autopsy and ballistics. Which meant that citizens in some places did fed off the rioters.
Kids are very sensitive about some things and completely insensitive about others. Instead of calmly explaining, the government was completely absent.
To the people of the US, although things may have gove south in the last decades,
they are not as bad as elsewhere!

Posted by George December 17, 08 03:55 AM
433.

I am a young, college educated American who fully supports the uprising in Greece, especially that of the anarchists. The commentors who try to link this with the communist party, the KKE, are dead wrong. They are actively trying to quash the riots, along side the police.

Those trying to disregard violent uprising as ignorant or unsavory clearly don't understand much about their own countries history, or the history of virtually any country in the world for that matter.

They are also protesting a murder by the police. The funny thing here is that they are rioting over one corrupt murder of a youth by the police, and there are similar riots going on throughout the world over this. In the United States, countless youths are murdered by the police and nothing ever comes of it. In the 60's and 70's, political leaders were assassinated by the police here, and things didn't erupt as they should have.

I wish all of you in Greece the best. Love, from one brother to an extended family.

NO MASTERS.

Posted by Elliot Swift December 17, 08 03:57 AM
434.

hahaha,
someone said that Greece was uncivilized for having these kinds of riots..
he also added that he tought he was lucky to live in the US, where no such thing can happen...

Perhaps one should really be aware of his country's history...before making such comments...

I mean, you dont even have to look so far back...dosent Seattle 1999 ring a bell??

Posted by bdoul December 17, 08 04:00 AM
435.

I cannot believe those people. Sure it is a tragedy wenn a 15 year old boy is shot, but why take out your anger on innocent people. Those policemen are only doing their job. And what about the store owners whose businesses are burned too the ground.

I just think there are better ways to express you emotions. To be honest I look at those people and think they are just like those men who go to a bar to start a fight, not just to have a good time. Whatever happens, they will find an excuse to fight.

And what about the parents of these youths. If I was going out to riot and came back home, surely there was hell to pay. Parents should keep their kids inside at times like this and restore order.

Posted by Steve December 17, 08 04:03 AM
436.

Amazing pictures but sad very sad that Greece has reached this point. I love Greece and I think it's one of the most beautiful countries in the world but the corruption has taken over the system and the politicians don't care about the "simple" citizens any more. I told my friends several times that there will be an explosion soon from the ("young") people and they were laughing. I have left Greece 10 months ago with my fiancee to have a better life and I can say honestly that we have. We think a lot about Greece but we do not want to go back except for the holidays. It is sad to see that we had to go away from our own country to start building our future...but what bugs me the most is....HAVE YOU SEEN THE "PLATEIES" IN EVERY CITY EVERY TIME KARAMANLIS / PAPANDREOU IS VISITING. OVERLOADED WITH PEOPLE... SO WHO IS REALLY HERE TO BLAME ???

Posted by CDG December 17, 08 04:07 AM
437.

I think that this is kinda sad that this is the only way they can get the attention of there goverment , but any day i would rather live in a community where u can do sutch things that live in the US. the us is a democrativ goverment but they act like dictators. riots are the voice of the ppl its the picture one get when someone isnt listening.

Posted by Christian Stenild December 17, 08 04:10 AM
438.

[quote]but at least I don't have to worry about my car getting destroyed or my apartment being looted or torched. [/quote]

Nope all you have to worry about is some nutter coming to your work/school and shooting up the place......

But at least your pretty (fully insured) apartment and car will be untorched =D

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 04:18 AM
439.

@402 - To you looting may seem senseless, but LA saw looting because the black people had been looted by the system their whole lives. All the shops and markets opened up when they said the magic words "this is our life!"

The NYTimes article abstract says that in 1973 when Greeks ousted the military dictatorship that the US installed, "police estimates of damage caused to private and public property during riots are in 'tens of millions of dollars'"

Riots happened in the Czech Republic, riots happened .... in Boston. Yeah they do happen all over the world. It's not senseless and irrational.

Posted by Cascade Youth December 17, 08 04:19 AM
440.

To add to my first post -- the pictures are excellent, thank you. This is the first thing that drove me to comment.

As for all the confused and/or emotional responses to my post: if you actually read my post you'll find I addressed everything quite clearly the first time.

Many of us in the US do know what's going on, sadly, perhaps better than your average Greek youth do. We know about the KKE and the artifacts of communism in your universities and students and their warped socialist motivations. We know about the neo-fascists too.

Trust me, as a US Citizen, we know all about the spirit of rebellion. There are a lot of things going on in Greece now (slow collapse of your welfare state, political corruption, banking system rape and pillage) that are also going on in the US, and it makes me smile to see an openly displayed spirit of resistance from Hellenic people.

Unfortunately you're going about it in the wrong way. The worst possible way. You're hurting each other.

All of this is probably coming to the US too. It remains to be seen if we go quietly into the dark night of socialism and tyrrany and slavery, or if we see ourselves through to something new.

This is why I underscored the importance of being armed. It won't stop riots, but it does give citizens better odds of and more options for survival. Note the famous video of the lone man holding off over 200 members of an angry mob with one AR15 during the LA Riots.

Again, the thing that is probably hard for European serfs to understand -- is that there is a strong gun-culture that exists in the US. You can lash out and talk about dangers and violence of guns or whatever, but for a nation larger than Europe** our overall crime rate is low. Most of our gun crime occurs in "gun-free" zones and cities. Just like the most horrid crimes in Africa tend to occur in the UN "gun-free" zones, we have the same concentrated areas of issue.

It's easy to research and understand the facts, but I am not interested in debating the value/merit of an armed society (in this thread), or the likelyhood of riots, or whose culture is superior.

We all have problems, and in the US we are facing many of the same problems Greece is.

I was simply pointing out that US citizens have more options, and better odds of survival, against police, looters, rioters, radical islam, or really any defensive situation, than disarmed serfts in Europe. Since we (in the US) are allowed to defend ourselves.

Our legal system is a bit messed up, so the right to defend oneself in most states (the ones that do not support Castle Law) is far more complex than our Constituation and Bill of Rights dictate.

Some of the most memorable and stimuting times I've had abroad were in Greece and her islands. Thanks for all the intelligent posts by folks from Hellas, take care, again,

Best of luck to all you Greeks.


** Larger than Europe -- by this measurement I refer to the distance from Lisboa to Vienna is roughly 2,000 miles, 2/3rds the width of the US (roughly 3,000 miles from San Francisco to New York City)

Posted by ae December 17, 08 04:21 AM
441.

In US you may protect your properties but you had the most &^%$# president in all times who caused a war in the Gulf and then you were all crying about your soldiers who got killed. So don't critisise the Greek when you vote for idiots...

Posted by Katerina Athens December 17, 08 04:24 AM
442.

Violence against Violence

Posted by sol December 17, 08 04:34 AM
443.

It doesn't happen in The U.S.A. I guess you forgot: The Watts riots, The Rodney King Riots, The Battle in Seattle...
Riots happen everywhere people feel oppressed and ignored. Was the cop who killed the girl doing his job? Should he have not selected a target before firing his gun, isn't that what he was trained to do?
I don't agree with the desruction of personal property, but that's a small percentage of the people causing that type of damage.

Posted by Joshua December 17, 08 04:34 AM
444.

I see here Americans with different opinions and points of view!The same happents everywhere because people is confiused since they cannot have a clear reception of what is happening!
Of course I cannot say that my country is great just because I can park my car with no worring or that I am able to do my shopping with no stress!Believe it or not even in the most ''small'' countries there are places where people are caring only about their cars and shoping activities so please dont say that you live in a''great'' country because of that!
Young people and old have died or been victims of brutalities by the forces of police of many goverments all over the world!
In Greece I saw the police forces to do their''job'' only against people who were protesting for their low or stolen salaries,their health-system,their school buildings with no heating or windows,the rain of taxes and ...well I can write about their reasons for pages!When it has to do with the ''bad guys''who throw molotov and breaking stores,police is not approaching but they just play tricks by guiding them to a specific places of Athens where they let them to do their ''job''!
Now you think that they are afraid to aproach because the anarchists are biger in number than the grups of the students who are protesting and they are armed!Just check carefully the photos and you'll see that they are not more than 50!Why they dont do their job then?Because they have orders and also because this group of 50 people has at least 20 policemen dressed like anarchist leading the more easy to convinced young people who thinks that they do a revolution this way(or not thinking at all)to break anything for giving food to the media to put the blame to the students!
The event of Greece is not so far away from any of you even if you think that you live in a great place because if you take a look around of any perfect neiburhood you'll realise that there are people in the same limits of your city,suffering and they dont care about matterials but only to work and live simple without been treated like slaves!

Posted by YANNIS December 17, 08 04:38 AM
445.

Turkish brothers and sisters thank you for your support,

it means a great deal to us. I hope that one day we will fight side by side against oppression, against corruption, against to all those who are stealing our lifes and our dreams.
all my love to you

Posted by greekgirl December 17, 08 04:39 AM
446.

I'm happy to see that not all americans think alike.
For those who do (the majority I'm afraid...), you know, the ones who elected Bush two times (like one was not enough to see how stupid they've been) I just want to say this:
At least in Greece, the students (thousands and thousands of them) are fighting for a cause, a right, noble and just cause. The don't take firearms, go to their schools and start killing their fellow students and teachers, like they do in the US.
So, before some people start passing judgement from their comfortable living room about a society they are not familiar with in any way, they should first open their eyes and ears and realise the mess they are living in.
Then maybe, just maybe, they could try to do something about it (and I don't mean checking if they locked their garage door so their precious car is safe).

Posted by Xenophon December 17, 08 04:47 AM
447.

#305: "Seriously, this is why the US is so great. This kind of thing doesn't happen here."

I was trying to detect a note of sarcasm in your comment and found none. Are you being *serious*? Have you never heard of the 1992 Los Angeles riots? Where 53 people died?

Sheesh, Americans...

Posted by Bemused December 17, 08 04:48 AM
448.

Lets make one thing clear here, Alexis was not throwing Molotov Cocktails at the Police, he was basically killed in cold blood, the bullet did not rebound!

There is a good (or bad) reason why your American media is reporting such misinformations but I wont get into that

P.S. Also I noticed that your media is saying Greeks are calling Alexis a Martyr, what a lie.

Posted by A Greek December 17, 08 04:49 AM
449.

The less safe place to live is the one where riot an unknown word.

These students don't just fight for the death of a class mate who died by a police man, this is just the water drop that overflowed the glass.

The fight is for the uncertain future the politics have build for them without asking them,
for the same system that will make them work 12 hours a day for 700euro/month,
for the free education system system that is not free at all,
for the anger they feel by realizing that after many generations, they will be the first one that quality of living will be worst that the previous ones,
and finally they fight because this is the only way to be heard.

Posted by a greek December 17, 08 04:52 AM
450.

TO Mr NOT GREEK: DON'T BE JEALOUS ABOUT GREEKS.
IN USA YOU WILL NOT HAVE YOUR CARS BURNT OR THE STORE TORCHED BUT, YOU ALREADY HAVE TWO TOWERS DEEP DOWN IN THE GROUND.

DON'T YOU KNOW THAT THE WHOLE PLANET EARTH HATES AMERICANS. SO, WHY DON'T YOU GO TO THE MOON?

''''Seriously, this is why the US is so great. This kind of thing doesn't happen here. It may not be a perfect place (for sure!) but at least I don't have to worry about my car getting destroyed or my apartment being looted or torched''''

Posted by KOMIS December 17, 08 04:57 AM
451.

to NoGreek, post no 305: it is not normal and usual to get killed by policeman in europe as in US... i understand, that you accept killing people, as you are american, but i would be really happy, if you could understand, that human life is much more valuable than some car or any other material stuff... I understand, that, you couldnt understand, that we all are living in lies... if you prefere material things and "safety" than freedom, its your own way, but not mine, nor european... one of your presidnet said (i think it was jefferson) : "Any society, that will give up a little liberty to gain a little security, deserves neither and loos both." You americans forgot your liberty, you gave up liberty... liberty is not safeness... liberty is liberty... which you do not deserv and which you will loos...

Posted by Darksun December 17, 08 04:58 AM
452.

Keep on going Greeks!!!
Cause this is the birthplace of thinking!

Posted by Thanos December 17, 08 04:59 AM
453.

For those readers outside of the European continent, especially the US, that do not understand why a cop is accused for "defending himself" from a 15year old. In Greece possession of a firearm is illegal, use of a firearm is illegal. The only people with arms are the army, the police, hunters (dismantled at all times), and people that can prove to a judge that their life is threatened. CRETE is an exception. If that professional experienced coward cop can prove to the court that his life was threatened by a 15year old 20meters away that through an empty bottle of water way before he was shot then we are doomed as a society
Best regards Taso from Greece

Posted by Taso December 17, 08 05:04 AM
454.

#389 comment describes what the majority of the Greeks feels right know, also describe the true story of the murder of the young boy.

According to many witnesses Alexander Grigoropoulos was just a boy who was eating with his friends , no bombs no molotov cocktails this is just police bullshits.

Posted by Michael Sfictos December 17, 08 05:05 AM
455.

The guy in picture No29 is a NOT a protester, is NOT a student, is NOT an anarchist and is NOT a communist.

What is he???

Posted by Pan December 17, 08 05:17 AM
456.

So, this is the "Greek Democracy". I see now... MACEDONIA IS OUR NAME!!!

Posted by Ace Bozinovski December 17, 08 05:18 AM
457.

Pamme, ellada!!

Say what you want but the people will always be tha nation!! Respect from Europe

Posted by antigourouina December 17, 08 05:26 AM
458.

obviously you werent at the RNC a few months ago. It does happen in america.

Posted by ted December 17, 08 05:27 AM
459.

Dam..... have read all the last 100 comments.......

I am Greek and Unfortunately not a Teenager…quite older!

I really am proud for the new Generation, they do what we should have done….

To all those Americans that express an opinion, just learn the facts and not through your media, search the net dudes!

The kid didn’t had any gun nor bomb of any sort just a bottle of water or 2.
Even if you were told that he had a bazooka you would believe it…..it is very
normal in Greece 15 year old to drink coffee with their Kalashnikovs, C4’s and
Bazookas! (this is a joke since most of you could believe it!)

Of Corse I see that some (minority) of US citizens do understand what is going on and want things to change….guys you are smart with an open mind
But in a country that any form of protest is criticized, Bush elected 2 times,
People stay in their houses in front of their tv waiting the time to pass to go to work. You have a lot of work to do……keep fighting and expressing your ideas. Do not let the system destroy you

For all others please learn the facts and history prior of expressing your opinions.

Posted by change December 17, 08 05:31 AM
460.

Those demonstrators should be ashamed of themselves, ruining their own country like that. Instead start a new political party and try to win elections. As these scenes show i think a new party would get enough votes... Change would be a nice campaign slogan :).... For the rest I think it is mainly antiglobalist behind these atrocities

Posted by john December 17, 08 05:42 AM
461.

I don't see how this makes the U.S. so great.

L.A riots, anyone?

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 05:43 AM
462.

u are all missing the point.
its not an american vs eu contest, or a right wing vs left wing quarell.
greece is a country where we have to pay more taxes than every eu citizen, where our work hours and productivity levels are in the top 3 of eu and our salaries are in the worst 5 of eu.
recently we watch a country falling apart, scandals emerging every single day, politicians more corrupt than the system itself. the health system is on a freefall for years now, the education system is gettin worse and worse. the currrent political structure has failed us miserably. so have the politicians and political parties. point me to another country that has the same names as primeministers over the period of the last 40 years. the same dirty families take charge of the country and more and more oppurtunists get their chance of eating our tax money and public property.
im not saying that burning down half the athens is a solution. but we wont stay at home anymore watching from the tv. this is not something pure or innocent, but its not a couple of thousand of anarchists taking over a city either. its a social reaction and unfortunately, the way things are going, more will come in the coming years all over the world. brace urselves.


Posted by A.M 24/Greece December 17, 08 05:45 AM
463.

The boy was not holding a bomb. Can you understand that?He was murdered by a policeman and there is no reason for that.
In my country we have not the right to kill somebody just like that. We have jails if the justice decides that somebody did something wrong, we dont kill him. If you in America kill each other and you all carry guns that thing doesnt make you civilized.
In my country we kknow how to fight for our rights and we do. When something is bad and wrong we protest, we don t let an idiot to make wars in other countries because he wants more money. We fight for our home in our country and not in country 15000 miles away from home.

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 05:50 AM
464.

Dear a.e. (comment 311),

Well, I just finished reading what you said and I started wondering why you spent so much of your time to write a piece of words just to show some one-eye perception.
I will tell you my opinion because your arguments need some straightforward answers since you think you have travelled a lot and “seen” a lot.
First of all, talking about geography knowledge in this thread is like showing-off like little kids. What more should I say? Should I mention all those red-necks in your country that do not know nothing not only about history but also today? Not really worth doing it, don’t you think?
Now, if you think that the rest of the world hates Americans in general, you are totally mistaken. We also don’t fall for the crap that because the US government (and NOT the Americans) fork money over to Greece, the Greeks should love the US. We know EXACTLY why your government spends money on Greece. Just try you Americans convince your government NOT to!!!! Your question will simply be denied. It is part of your country’s politcs, admit it!!! But don’t think I am a fool. My government would do the same against you (oh yes, against!!!)if they could. The difference is that you see yourself more of a citizen of a strong US country that you dream of, whereas I see myself more of a citizen of a better world I hope for.
If you want to talk about property, you should first ask yourself how someone created it. There are properties that have been made from one’s sweat and properties made from the blood AND sweat of others. What kind of property do YOU have?? Should I suppose it’s all legal??? OK, I will. Where does this legality come from actually? From some law I suppose. So, you accept the law that recognizes your property as legal but then you DENY the law that brings to justice all property violators and you want to enforce YOUR law to protect what you have by drawing out some well-polished M-16 or a 9mm pistol or a shotgun (or all of the above together…) and fire some proud owner’s bullets to the so called “anarchist”. Can you please explain to me the complexity of this legal system that you dream of? Because to me it seems that the next step you are going to take is to declare your ranch as “independent” from what you dislike and “dependable” from what you approve. It is obvious that there is only one kind of protection to you: the protection of what you have. Well, you should know that others just DON’T have. So when back in 1992, people rioted in L.A. due to the humiliation of Rodney King by the police at first and then by the American justice, they protected what they didn’t have: the stolen right of equal treatment before law and justice. It is so obvious that L.A. and Athens have the same thing in common, you on the other hand fail to recognize that when sad history is repeated something is definitely wrong and above all that you want to teach us another lesson of “American history” (either by not having seen the relative movie or by completely misunderstanding it).
Well, listen to this my dear: we, open-minded people, don’t need this kind of education.
Still don’t know what I am saying? Try “Bad Education” (La mala educacion), a film by Pedro Almodovar…
Spiros from Athens, Greece (nothing more than a location, really!!! ).

Posted by Spiros December 17, 08 05:53 AM
465.

Thailand doesn't look so bad after all

Posted by Bo December 17, 08 05:57 AM
466.

i think this will happen more and more in all the richer countrys with more and more rich people and more and more poor people...also in the USA!!

Posted by konrad December 17, 08 05:58 AM
467.

to 305 the greek system is corrupted and these cops won't face their consequences. 23 years ago another kid(also anarcist), mihalis kaltezas, murdered by a police officer. after two years the courts decided that it's ok to let him go... in greece police brutallity is a common thing.

but we are humans and its something natural to defend yourself

however anarchists oppose themselves agaist all states and goverments so the fight will continue.

btw i think yr car shouln't be the most important thing in your life.

enough is enough

Posted by its_all_greek_to_me December 17, 08 06:07 AM
468.

Thank you, "Greek American (Yes, we do care)", for the most accurate comment on this board.
In this world, there is no greater good than democracy and a constitutional state. Us Greeks should know, we came up with it. Yes, it is corrupt; yes, it is subjected to influences by the economy; yes, freedom of speech means having to listen to neo-fascists, brain-washers etc.; yes, it creates inequalities. But it is the ONLY system that will fight to the death for every single civilian's right to freedom, property and free speech. The only one. There is no other option. I come from the political left myself, and we know that everything else hasn't worked. All other systems are way more dangerous when corruption sets in - which it will, because that's human nature. All you people bashing the Greek police: have you any idea what would have happeed to the rioters in a non-democratic country like China? And we wouldn't even have heard about it, and there wouldn't have been any photos to comment on. So please get a reality check.
I personally understand the anger and frustration of the people. It just kills me that we don't understand how dangerous it is to create new (and revive old) battle lines and polarizations. This is how every single totalitarian system has started: with "angry people". And to all those saying that no civil rights movement would have worked without violence: are you kidding me? Please get your facts straight.
Be that as it may, I'm glad a political discussion has arised from this. If anything, that will be the only positive effect.

Posted by KostasP December 17, 08 06:08 AM
469.

@#311:
''You sold yourselves out to your government long ago, and became servants and property of it while begging it to be a welfare state and take care of you.''

U r absolutely right.I'm a greek citizen(not proud of ) living at the heart of athens,where all the riots took place.
We keep voting the same political parties due to our personal interests,the same politicians that offer us a job at the Public Services.
This situation has been so perfectly rooted during the last 2 generations that it's simply impossible to change.
There is no hope for us.
We are every day at the mercy of God.We have no Public Insurance neither for our working rights,nor for our lives and our property.
After all,the media did their job quite well....They misinformed the citizens(they always do)persuading us that we live in a State of Insecurity.
Shame at the Greek State for the assassination of young Alexis....
Shame at the State for keeping and tranforming us into working monkeys....
SHAME ON US FOR LETTING THIS HAPPEN....

Posted by erev December 17, 08 06:09 AM
470.

The best way to spread the word of Anarchy isn't by riots or revolting. Those just cause dictatorships and violence to reign superior to negotiations. The only way is by word of mouth and informing that Anarchy isn't supposed to be like this. Anarchy isn't meant to be a revolting violence towards anyone but a slow and peaceful process. Ignorant youth of the world just take anarchy to be a slick term to use whenever they disagree and decide to "push the government out of power."

Posted by pandapple December 17, 08 06:19 AM
471.

I am Belgian, living in Athens and do NOT support the type of riots that followed the murder of the boy. There is no way in hell this can be justified. I saw a post of Carmen in NY saying that the change has to come from the inside and she is so right... To all those youngsters that are taking part in demonstration - either peaceful or not - Stop skipping school - that's all you're after anyway. Start studying and make the change yourselves! As to the older generation - stop weening about the government! Who puts the Papandreous and the Karamanlis' in power generation after generation? Right : you do by voting for them!
Greeks should finally stop their paranoia alltogether - they are never to blame, it's always someone else. Get real, stop weening and take your own fate in your hands. As for the riots - it is inexusable to destroy other people's property - already people are getting sacked as the businesses can't make it otherwise....


Posted by mvv December 17, 08 06:49 AM
472.

Yes, let's bring god into this!

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 06:55 AM
473.

I'm Polish, and what happened in Greece makes me feel sorry for the family of the boy. Why is it so hard , for people, to understand theirselves , their needs and so on ? Are we really brainwashed so much by the system ? I was in police academy for some time then I dropped as I could not stand the brainwashing they did to us. Or it is our fault that things like that happen ? Not all of us are good people , I think people are naive thinking that they can change things by riots. We need somebody who will act like president , politics etc. in order to get to a position where he will be able to make significant decisions and change something. I wish Greece good luck and want to congratulate the courage.

Posted by one of 7 000 000 000 December 17, 08 06:58 AM
474.

Violent protestors are the world's biggest idiots.

Posted by Jakes December 17, 08 07:03 AM
475.

Protesting a wrongful death is one thing but burning Policemen, looting stores, torching stores and personal vehicles is nothing more than mob-mentality at it's worse. Maybe a few instigators are creating this furor creating a situation where they can probably rob stores and banks without getting caught.
The Police need to use rubber bullets and more force to stop these from continuing.

Posted by Bryan H December 17, 08 07:18 AM
476.

I believe that the documentaire Zeitgeist might be relevant to this discussion, it is available on video google and lasts 2 hours. In religion, terrorism, both worldwars and vietnam are discussed and some very interesting points come up. Although I do not believe this vid gives an objective vision on America as a corrupted nation, but it does shed a different angle of light on it.

Personnally I am a proud European from the Netherlands, I do not really know what trouble is going on in Greece, but I hope those that riot have an idea about how the government should then look at and I also hope they are undivided in doing so.

Posted by Dutchman December 17, 08 07:31 AM
477.

I'm all for protest, but once you start looting, you lose a lot of credibility in your argument..."We demand freedom, we demand justice, and to show it we're going to set this innocent person's car on fire and steal this television from this shop", or "hey, I have an idea! Let's show our anger at the govt. by breaking into this store and robbing it. That'll teach them that social injustice must not be tolerated". If you want to get your point across, you have to have a bit more imagination than petty thugs.

Posted by dgtheory December 17, 08 07:32 AM
478.

Andrew 374 - Your right, we don't have riots in our country... well except for about one large one every ten years or so. Were you alive during any of the LA riots? Surely you remember the small riots after Rodney King? Any of the race riots? How quickly we forget our own history.

Posted by Mike December 17, 08 07:32 AM
479.

Assume that you are civilized(!), have never raised your head and your job is paying all your needs. Would you try to understand where that money come from. That's why civilised(!) people don't understand what all this mass is about. Stop accusing the real civilised lands/nations for demanding their needs.
Many similar incidents (irresponsible police shots, torture, etc.) happened in Turkey and are still happenning. It seems we are losing our fight but I hope, our Greek brothers don't...

Posted by Oxobit December 17, 08 07:34 AM
480.

"Wow. I seriously thought Greeks were smarter than this. What a bunch of Yoohoos. ---Posted by Desolder"
On the other hand, comments of the likes of yours are expected. You do not seem smart at all, just conformed, misinformed and forgeting. I thought the Americans celebrated the 4th of July. Who's to judge what's a riot and what's a revolution, if not history itself.
Greeks have stayed dormant way too long. No sane person applauds to the mindless destruction of little shops and random vehicles... but guess what: there are also videos and pictures that PROVE that people that worked ALONGSIDE THE POLICE, even policemen, burned and destroyed in order to guide people's rage against the rioters. Those photos, of course, are cleverly hidden from public, by the traditional media.

Photo of policemen disguised as rioters, arresting an actual rioter:
http://www.to4ari.gr/printview.php?t=2678&start=0&sid=ccf62ca92db6013c80f1b6182c9bb645

Policemen and among them... *gasp!* masked rioters with crowbars!! Is the crowbar standard police equipment? Blue-jeans will eventually replace the police uniform, along with the scarfs and masks?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uZASMP9vY5k/ST_PkJIim5I/AAAAAAAABRU/Uza259cMpq4/s1600-h/01331_0812100604.jpg

Do not judge rushly, just watch intendly, think productively and act accordingly.

Posted by Alpha-Yiota December 17, 08 07:37 AM
481.

Furthermore I would like to say that I do not believe in violence to change the system, I also have little faith in a proper system to work in the coming centuries, as money as we know now is just debt, it is no longer equivalent to gold, money has no real value anymore. If people realise what money nowadays really is, if all do and if all people would be rational and strive for a common happiness, happiness for everyone and not just for a few, than the world may become a better place. Making money what it was again, something of true value, is just the start, but it is an important one. If the constitution would say what it would have to by rational thinking on th emoral perspective, than we know the constitution would say: its is illegal to use other principles on yourself than on others and it is illegal to use persons as means only. In that way no one is used and everyone can work for their own goods, without being obstructed by others.

Posted by Dutchman December 17, 08 07:39 AM
482.

I am a greek from germany and I have to say that I full understand the greek citizen. For years the greek governement independent of parties has been making mistakes which has a terrible result of having one of the greatest unemployment throughout europe. The current government can't provide any alternatives to the next growing generation. Furthermore I don't really believe that changing party would be a solution. The protest shall express the nuisance in greece and the sad reality that recession, unemployment and the medical scheme has developed towards worst case scenario caused by the greek parties!!!
By the way, I love USA and hope that USA and greece will find a way to come over the actually problems they have to face.

Posted by Andy December 17, 08 07:43 AM
483.

I wish it turns out well.

Here we held a full 24hours protest for over 193 days in Thailand, a peaceful protest, except when the police starts using C4 and M79 on us. ( no, we didn't fight back)

Posted by Piriya S. December 17, 08 07:43 AM
484.

You Americans. You'll never understand what is life and more over what democracy is. You only want to consume.

Posted by C.K. December 17, 08 07:46 AM
485.

These Greek need to get a life. Wah some kid was shot! Big deal! Happens all the time here in the US. If a there were riots for every brat the cops shot - the whole country would be burning. Europeans have nothing better to do then to sit around and bitch and moan. Look at Paris a few years ago! We have unemployment here too and you dont see that stuff happening.

Posted by Zack December 17, 08 07:49 AM
486.

as a greek-american, i am saddened to see these pictures. i could never imagine this happening in the USA. i pray that the young people of greece and the government can resolve their issues and move on. it makes me sick to see such a beautiful country torn apart from the inside. my grandmother use to tell me, never fight with your brother because there are plenty of other people out there willing to fight you and you need your brother. peace, God bless.

Posted by Alex December 17, 08 07:50 AM
487.

democracy, is for humans to struggle. When you give up your right to pursue the reconstruction of everyday structures after they have stopped fulfilling their purpose - then you have been won over by the sources of power that put those structures in place so they can drain people of their creativity and productivity.

What greeks are doing with their riots, is communicating.

politicians and billionaires out there, will simply never listen to the concerns of common folks, especially young people - especially in greece. Greeks have seen their country turn from greatness to Europe’s anus. And they can’t do nothing to stop it cause whoever gets voted at elections will always fall victim to the money trap.

you call it corruption… i call it survival.

when young people work for nothing - just enough to cover bills and rent - and see doctors, lawyers, politicians and nowadays even priests! earning millions of black money from bribes. Sometimes they might get “seduced” from the benefits of “corruption”, others they will live their life in mediocrity and often in/near poverty. Laslty others (much like in our case) will just get angry and without / or not knowing how / a way to go about correcting this, they will go out and burn things.
Struggle in whatever way possible to break this vicious cycle that predetermines a sheepish life, of wasting their labor in order to accumulate “wants” that media is constantly trying to implant into their brains…

In fact, I keep wondering…

How on earth is it possible that the whole western world haven’t yet wised up to the whole money trick that is being played on them by the “banks” . how can 99% of the population on earth ignore it? How far have the media /politics gone to cover this up? have they made our brain this numb?
…and now we have an economic crisis and it is no wonder. And what do we do to fix this? we pull together even more of our resources and labor in order to save those who tricked us, from drowning…

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying go out and hurl molotov cocktails at the police or innocent shop owners and businesses. I am just saying wise up. We are being scammed and we need to react.

personally.. i just feel like lol.

Posted by destroyer of hope December 17, 08 07:51 AM
488.

Yes, we're idiots.
But idiots tired of our "smart masters" sucking us dry and then shooting us.

Posted by happy little rioter December 17, 08 08:02 AM
489.

An attempt to answer the comment 311

Not much of the things you mentioned are wrong, but the comparison between Greece and US allow me to say that is at least entertaining. Your state was always following the policy to corrupt local governments and attack to economically weak states to control your ¡American interests¢ in the globe. Well, you do not have the power anymore to influence the world, as you are deeply hurt from your problems.

• So, you are left with your guns (¡armed¢, as you proudly mentioned)

For us Greeks an armed man/woman is synonymous to fascism that goes better with a dose of insanity.

Let me tell you something about Greeks. Although we parade every year against you as a custom we respect your society, as it is the only society in the world that unified all different nations/cultures. US at first was an experimental project that bleed many times and tried hard to understand that all different people are equal. Your progress towards this societal affiliation was a remarkable examine of acceptance to the Balkan region.

Always remember that your comments on our country are more than welcomed, but we do not want your wish of good luck. You will be probably need it in 2009, when recession hits your door hard and force you to take your gun. But I m wondering who are you going to shoot?

Keep returning to Greece and visit not the resorts but the inland you will probably find that our mentality deserves a better understanding and please do not bring your laws and guns are doors are open…

And support me on this I m afraid of planes do not let them to fly me to Guantanamo with CIA¢s plane…ooohhh and sorry for this but I¡m a Muslim but a good one…ok?

Posted by EU citizen December 17, 08 08:04 AM
490.

you ain't seen nothin yet................

Posted by chalkie December 17, 08 08:05 AM
491.

Robert in Florida, here you go:
the boy wasn't holding a bomb or a molotov cocktail. Someone from his group of friends threw a plastic bottle towards the cops police car. the policemen were IN the car. His life was NOT in danger under any circumstances. The cop was told by his HQ to evacuate the area because it is known for rioting and he not only didn't listen to them, he returned on foot said clearly for all to hear " I'll show you now" and pointing towards the boy shot 3 times. More than 10 people testified to that effect. If you guys in florida think that murder is justified and that this is "one event" as you so intelligently call it, is no reason to be mad and angry and any other word you might want to use, then i pity anyone who has he same mentality as you. This woke up thought about how unfair things are for everyone, from salaries to education to anything you can imagine that people feel oppressed about. Oh! and watch out''cause its coming your way...

Posted by Suzanna December 17, 08 08:13 AM
492.

For the story..
The 15 year old boy was out for a Saturday night walk with 2-3 of his friends in
Exarchia, a place in the center on Athens, offering a lot of bars and cafés but also known for the many incidents between Police and protesters.
The boys met a police car with 2 police men and it is said that there was a quarrel between the 2 sides (a very common thing for this area).
The boys were then walking on a foot-walk street when the 2 police men left their car a block away (despite the Police center order that clearly asked them to disengage ) followed them and started arguing with them. The 2 police men were standing 20 meters behind the boys when one of the boys threw a plastic bottle of water to them. One of the police men, took out his gun, aimed, and shotted directly to the boy 3 times. After that the 2 police men left.
There were over 30 eye witnesses at the scene who stated the same story.

Posted by Stathis December 17, 08 08:14 AM
493.

I am an American, but I wish I were a Greek.

To see all these people around me all the time, writhing in their schedules, doing the same thing every day, looking exactly alike, Starbucks, advertising campaigns... I'm so sick of so many things.

Any man that would call a greek a fool? I'd call them a simpleton. Anyone who says these riots aren't just or deserved, they obviously are oblivious to the things going on under the surface. I'm not saying I know the entire back story, but I'm smart enough to know that you don't just start a riot. I feel these riots were noble.

Just because romance and nobility and dignity are all dead in America, that doesn't mean the entire world has to follow our example. I applaud these young, these furious. They're truly alive. And they're truly aware of the things around them.

If only I could talk sense into fucking ANYone in America, I'd be happy. However, people in America just roll over and buy, buy, buy. They don't care about standing up for anything anymore. It's so jaded here.

Someone rescue me? Just take me away from all this. Bring me somewhere with some passion. Somewhere that isn't so diluted.

This riot--what it stands for--it's beautiful. It's compassion and understanding and unity manifest. Things common Americans don't seem to understand these days. Everyone's so seperated and self-involved. You don't see an American getting upset over something unless it affects them directly. And somehow, they don't realize that we're getting fucked just as hard from our government. Why is that?

Open your eyes, America. I'm in Oklahoma, of all places, and I can still see that you're all practically dead within yourselves. Why didn't we rise up against Bush? Have we ever risen up when we really needed to save from the aforementioned LA riots or the Revolutionary War?

Someone tell me why no one ever reported widely that an entire black side of town was burnt to the ground, murdering and destroying and raping the entirety of a community. We go to fucking war to escape religious persecution and shortly thereafter, we become racist? And I don't want to hear any Englishman bitch at me for this and act any better--if you're going to mock an orangutan sound when Thiery Henry enters the pitch, you shouldn't act special.

What happened to the world... Americans are practically zombies--and they have the audacity to pretend that we're better than Greeks fighting for a just cause simply because they're rioting? Fuck that. If anything, we should've roared up when 9/11 happened and Bush declared that he wanted to go to Iraq. We should've stopped so many things. And we could've, had we had the balls.

Had we had the balls, Vietnam would've never happened. How? We should've stood up. Too bad America's too lazy and diluted to care.

I feel derelict in my solitary state. I feel abandoned and betrayed by all Americans due to their sheer stupidity. Forgive my country. Please. There are only a few who can empathize, but those few understand. We're not all bad--and we're not all happy. Very few, like the rest of the world, are so pissed off that they can't even sleep at night.

Posted by corruptcell December 17, 08 08:19 AM
494.

WE WANT A BETTER WORLD!
HELP US

We are not terrorists, rebels without a cause, familiar- strangers
WE ARE YOUR CHILDREN
These, familiar – strangers…
We are having dreams, don’t kill our dreams
We have spirit, don’t kill our spirit
REMEMBER!
Once you were young too.
Now you are chasing money, you only care about “how you look”,
You are getting fatter, you are getting bolder,
YOU FORGOT!
We are waiting you to support us,
We are waiting you to be interested,
To make us, just once, proud for you.
POINTLESS!
You are living fake lives; you used to have your heads down,
You have lowered your pants and waiting
the day that you will die.
You can’t image any more, you can’t fall in love any more,
You can’t create any more!
You can only buy and sell.
MATERIALISM ANYWHERE
LOVE NOWHERE – TRUTH NOWHERE
Where are the parents? Where are the artists?
Why did they come out to protect us?
THEY ARE KILLING US!
HELP US

THE CHILDREN

P.S. Don’t shoot any more tear gas against us
WE are crying on ourselves.

Students distributed this letter in the funeral of young Alex. It clearly reflects the way that the young Greeks are viewing the WORLD and what they stand up for.
WAKE UP. Your societies are not much different than our. You are just too SHORT-SIGHTED to see it.

Posted by CH.GR. December 17, 08 08:24 AM
495.

@Erik
hey,you could just read a bunch of newspapers dear.
it is true, there are lots of cases where muslims were jailed without accusation or trial.
There was a reportage in greece,im sure there is in netherlands too!
it was about 3 women,mother and 2 daughters, who lived in NYC and were jailed like that!
and then,set free
whoever sacrifices his freedom for "security" is not worth any freedom at all!

Posted by greek(but doesnt matter) student December 17, 08 08:26 AM
496.

ACAB from Ukraine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by FCDD December 17, 08 08:27 AM
497.

I will never understand the concept that an American could never know what it is like to be a citizen of another nation yet those same citizens of other nations presume to know precisely what it is like to live in the US.
Why is the US even in this discussion? This is entirely an internal issue for Greece. It's their problem to sort out. All countries have similar riots - France, Australia, the US, and many more. Hopefully the needed change will come from it and the people of Greece can vent their rage and move on feeling they've caused change for the better.

Posted by arm66 December 17, 08 08:28 AM
498.

i congratulate the youngsters of greece... you are so brave, you are the youth we need to make the revolution... few yers ago the same reaction has been in venezuella, and chille, and argentina, and before them all cuba with che guevara and fidel castro...
u got the point from here, i'm a palestinian communist (also Israelian) andf i believe that the best solution is communism, so please go read some of engels and marks books, and believe me the greek communist party whom always has been in the opposition, should embrace the youth and should lead the demonstrations....

Posted by shahin December 17, 08 08:28 AM
499.

This ended up being discussion about America?! pheeewww

Posted by Bosnian December 17, 08 08:28 AM
500.

The last 25 years more than 50 people in Greece died from the police. And... surprise not once a policeman founded guilty. Nice democracy, nice freedom.

Do u really believe there is democracy in Europe or in USA? Haha, nice joke.

www.zeitgeistmovie.com

Watch it, then u may understand

Posted by image punk December 17, 08 08:31 AM
501.

For #365, I can't believe that now almost half of America believes that by voting in yet another corrupt idiot into office, a revolution took place in America. It's disgusting. Don't get me wrong, McCain wouldn't have been any better. But, how can voting in a man put up for votes by the government be VOTING OUT the government you don't like? Bush isn't to blame. (Once again, I'm not siding with him, I hate his guts) But he is just a puppet of the big corporations and those in power without a face. Christ... some "revolution."

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable."

Posted by Conspiracy of One December 17, 08 08:34 AM
502.

My first reactions to the news of the rioting was "everyone has their breaking point" and I respected the people for standing up to what they believed in. Now, I see dozens of pictures of teenagers in designer jeans and fancy scarves running around and acting like they're fighting for their lives or something.

Someone please tell me these kids have a reason to be this angry, or at least that there are people with real grievances with their government out in the streets.
And no, as tragic as it is, a kid being shot by an assh*le cop isn't a reason to take the whole country apart.

Posted by Steelcity December 17, 08 08:34 AM
503.

I must say ... they are human fighters no riots, they are fighting for our future as well and maybe, all of as, have to give OUR fight!

Posted by navou December 17, 08 08:45 AM
504.

I must say ... they are human fighters no riots, they are fighting for our future as well and maybe, all of as, have to give OUR fight!

Posted by navou December 17, 08 08:46 AM
505.

These kids are not protesters, they are a bunch of thugs using an unfortunate incident to riot. If that was my businesses being burned, there would be a lot of dead protesters in front of it. No American jury would convict me. Anyone who would throw molotov cocktails is a criminal, not a protester. The fact that they threw them would be enough to convince a jury that my life was in danger. Thank you to to the American Founding Fathers for the second ammendment to the U.S. Constitution and it's guaranteeing the right to own firearms. And thank you Colt Firearms for the AR15.
Raymond

Posted by RCA1511 December 17, 08 08:46 AM
506.

There are fools in every place of the world. One bad decision from a cop gave to A FEW hooligans the opportunity to destroy, burn and loot because the police and the government were too afraid that more deaths could occur.
Just a bunch of hooligans, I repeat. The real protestors were many more and protested peacefully. End of story.

Posted by Ember December 17, 08 08:48 AM
507.

C.K. -
If you would get off of your high horse for a second and read about the founding of the United States, then you might know that we eschewed Democracy (mob rule) in favor of a Representative Republic; you're an uninformed fool.

Posted by Joel December 17, 08 08:52 AM
508.

As a Greek, I have to apologize for the behaviour of these moronic pseudo-anarchists compatriots of mine, who in their relative illiteracy have been confused by philosophical and sociological theories that rae much above their mental caliber...Greece is not more corrupt then the rest developed European countries, and contary to the popular myth, it has a much more even distribution of wealth than a lot of other devoloped countries. What Greece has, and the rest countries do not, is a generation of parents brought up with delusions about the significance in history of Paris during May 68 as well as the role of Polytechneion in the fall of the Greek junta in 1974. They have portrayed resistance to the authorities as the ultimate act of bravery. Their kids brought up with these ideas, have the delusion that they are reenacting the commune of Paris, and , since the police, instead of controling them in the way the police does in all free democratic countries, leaves them utouched, feel free to break everything that is in front of them. All the "tearfull" discussions about police violence is pure fabrication-the Greek police is only capable of giving parking tickets these days...because that is the king of police that the pseudo-liberal journalistic establishment want. The fact that organized crime has become very strong because of that, the fact that private property is not protected (of the poor and middle class people of cource-the rich have bodyguards) is something that these whining, lazy half-literate, stone throwing little brats have never thought of. It is interesting to examine the lifes of the two people involved in the event that "triggered" the demonstrations. The rich kid, with a house with a pool in an exclusive suburb, goes for kicks everywhere where unrest exists, knowing that his parents can save him from anything-he is allowed to offend, to throw rocks, to burn other people's houses (his house is in an area where no rock-thrower can approach...). The unlucky policeman (poor guy with three kids, from a poor village) in attacked by the groups in which the rich kid mingles. The rich kid is shot by the policemen, after he is attacked by the rock throwing group of Alexis Grigoropoulos. Then the whole of Greece gets burned....If the story was not true, it would sound like a bad joke...One can ask the question who is the priviledged and who the unpriviledged, who is right and who is wrong, do the events have any relationship with what happened afterwards?

Posted by Dimitris December 17, 08 08:53 AM
509.

Fellow American leftists,

Notice that whenever there is a possibility for even mild forms of civil unrest here, we 1) get our guns taken away 2) suspension of posse comitatus and deployment of soldiers with real guns not just tear gas 3) media shaming and misunderstanding and 4) constantly reinforcing us with "obedience" "patriotism" "God Bless America" "American dream" "hippie liberal scum". Activists in my hometown of Tacoma, WA were called "seditious" and "traitors" by the media for protesting the Iraq war!

Maybe you didn't read up on all the martial law information that surfaced in October. Maybe you haven't woken up yet. Maybe you aren't really free...

Posted by Amerikkka December 17, 08 08:54 AM
510.

Ahhh the ignorance...
What was gained from the rioting...
Banksy is going to have a field day...

Posted by ~~Slither~~ December 17, 08 08:55 AM
511.

All I hear is how good it was to do this, anti this, anti that...
I don't hear any solutions though.
Its good to react. Its healthy.
When you destroy something you better have something to put in its place.
Reacting for the sake of reaction.
One needs a vision to come with it..

Posted by Jason Boris December 17, 08 08:55 AM
512.

@ 138 "So what if a policeman shot a 15 year old kid on accident."

You wouldn't say any of this if it was YOUR kid, MF!

Posted by anonymous December 17, 08 08:57 AM
513.

it's so good thank you

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 09:04 AM
514.

I'm a Muslim girl living in Asia, and from what I've read and heard from the internet, there are a lot of useless bashing going on! To the Americans bashing Greeks, if you don't like the way they rebelled against their own goverment, then leave them to their own country. Don't bash them for what they believe in, because you don't know firsthand what they have been through. To the people in Greece, may you do what you think is right for your own country.

The road to Peace isn't smooth-- filled with deaths, riots, chaos, rebellions... but in the end, there will be Peace.

Posted by Sha December 17, 08 09:14 AM
515.

Anarchists believe that people are by nature good and that it is only institutions that corrupt them. Americans, a lot of you, are truly idiotic, because even your own founding fathers expressed their views anarchist ways. If the government ever becomes corrupt Jefferson said to "overthrow such government". Instead, you have erected barriers, institutional and ideological, to maintain corrupt institutions. Read Title 18 of the US Code of Law. It's the most “Anti-American” thing I have ever read because it criminalizes dissent. People do not even have local control over the decisions that affect their lives, as any anarchist wants. Police, troops, occupy your streets like foreign invaders, only to protect the upper and middle class from the landless and outlawed. Common people do not get to decide much of anything. You don't even have the “states' rights” that the founding fathers wanted, nothing close to autonomy. Yet you think you're the most important people on the planet.

Now is the time to start thinking about ideas like “anarcho-syndicalism” and other ways of organizing yourselves.

Posted by an ungovernable from America December 17, 08 09:17 AM
516.

Respect to the greek FIGHTERS! We all are with you! Leave your couches and go in the streets! We all need to fight for a better future, for our children! THE END OF TOLERANCE.

Imagine what they have done if they had Bush to run their nation... They would have burnt down the whole Parthenon!

Thank you again Greece

Posted by George P. December 17, 08 09:19 AM
517.

I'm sorry for the english...i wrote this text in greek language and i translate with a online tool...it's not good,i try to "fix" it but i have no time...i hope to understand what i want to say and i'm sorry for the wrongs.. :)
Let' start.........

This is a side of currency…
Rather they did not remove photographs the police it strikes 14 years old girls that did not have relation with "against the power" while they had passed handcuffs in the children, rather they did not remove photographs police officers offend and they cause the world, rather they did not show pictures that they walloped in the middle of night a irrelevant citizen that asked them something, rather they did not remove photographs that show police officers that wore politically with hood and jemmies to break shops… All this they did not show! MISINFORMATION! OPEN YOUR EYES .....
Therefore you only see the side of destructions and no the deeper meaning.
And in order to not we flatten all they became tens of peaceful courses.
Those that we call “known-unknown” does their police know but never doesn't arrest them. .why i wonder? ;)
Each time in each course they make episodes and finally no one it does not deal with the meaning of course. .about the demands of demonstrators. .they tarnish all those that try for something better. .All those that are in the streets and protest peacefully!! They unfortunately turn their common opinion against and him they accomplish a joy!
Of course it should we condemn the destructions of cars and shops of innocent citizens. More specifically i condemn the burn of library of University of Law Athens and any destruction became in the academic spaces. For the banks and big enterprises that broke, me it doesn't interests… Specifically the banks they constitute enormous part of problem…
About the facts with the special guard and the child
The life of Special Guard that shot it WASN'T at risk! Did not exist reason for shooting! The Special Guard show in 15 years old boys that this is the power !... that this makes that it longs for!
Moreover the MAT it was very near and if wanted help the special guard he could shout them! With few reasons the history has as follows:
It was in the police car and they made patrol, they saw the children and they disagreed, they went and parked the police car enough below the special guards and they turned with the legs in order to they show that these are the power….THIS IS NOT SAID SELFDEFENCE…THIS CALLED MURDER!
Tragic the history it is that it has become again in the past and will become again in the future unfortunately. Of course no one has not been condemned for similar and not only murders in the past. .everybody has been acquitted.
However all this they did not become only for the death of Alexis Grigoropoylos but for the all situation that prevails in the society…
For the wage??
For the education??
For actuarial??
For the pensions??
For the work and the flexible relations that prevail (no gentlemen we do not long for we work 12+ hours in order to take 1000th….we do not have free time nor for.!you saw the proposals of EU for work??:D )
For the unemployment of new generation. .while many youngs have 2-3 degrees, postgraduate etc are unemployed…
For the state?
For the scandals? They believe that they can play with the money of world and say to us that they care for good us? So much stupid they think we are?
THEY TRAMPLING OUR RIGHTS THAT WERE ACQUIRED WITH BLOOD AND WE ANSWER WITH PEACEFUL COURSES......
Now there are above 600 schools and 150 universities closed from the students in clue of protest..
The joke is that in other countries (as in America) become much worse things but no one do not react. .everybody have learned in the television and believe that they say to us ........When you will understand that you hear only that they want to hear??Nothing more......

Believe that we live in a Democracy but you have been laughed my friends… DOES NOT EXIST DEMOCRACY IN NO COUNTRY… very intelligently they said that we have democracy in order to don't know who is the real enemy. .We don't know who we have to face.. “Democracy”… It is simply a word… it has been lost the meaning. ;)

Friendlily,
Panagiotis..

Posted by panos December 17, 08 09:21 AM
518.

I'm an American of Greek descent and have family in Greece. I love the Greek people but I do not find Athenians to be characteristic of most of the people in Greece. I have been to Athens and would not wish living in that city on my worst enemy. I'm glad that the young people want to create change because when you live in a garbage heap you have to only look in the mirror to see who made the mess. So the people should demand change and get their own house in order but you cannot achieve anything with the tactics the demonstrators are using. The term demonstrators is used loosely. They are terrorists. I am usually proud to tell people of my Greek ancestry until recently. The scenes in these pictures could easily be construed as being from Baghdad or Pakistan. These are places where many of my Greek friends would describe the people as barbarians and uncivilized. How ironic and how ignorant of some posters here to think that change only comes with violence and destruction. Have they heard of Ghandi or Dr. MLK? Do these "demonstrators" ever stop to think who will want to invest in Greece and bring jobs there that will bolster the economy. I think even academics educated in Greece need to work because the last time I checked no one is paying them for pontificating. Students, get back to class because the world needs more Greek PhDs in government and philosophy and pigs might fly out of my butt!

Posted by tom hanks December 17, 08 09:27 AM
519.

To Asimos:

Yes! Thank you! I'm American and it's amazing to see the people who have forgotten about our founding fathers and about the Revolutionary War. Even the civil war that REUNITED this country. They died for us to be able to do the things we do today. They died so we could enjoy the fruits of their punishment. Many, Many peoples blood are all over this country with the only TWO wars ever fought on THIS soil in the past 300 years. The Revolutionary War and the Civil War. Protest helped shaped this country. Boston Tea Party, anyone? Do you think those people just sat back and said "Oh, well can you please not tax us?" Hell no, they went out and TOLD THEM they're not gonna do anything else and GTFO of their country. Thank you, for everything. They're probably turning in their graves because of the way the U.S. is now :(.

Posted by kRaZy&iNSaNe December 17, 08 09:27 AM
520.

We fight for our rights
If you do not know the facts how you can so easily judge americans?You are not here, you don tllive the facts like we do. After all you do not think that a human life is prsious enough. You country has murder thousands all thiese years. Another more soul is nothing for you. But for us is everything.
You do not even know the meaning of the word democracy and you talk so easily for it...Please read first abook

Posted by anna December 17, 08 09:31 AM
521.

For anyone who has a little time to have a look at the link below,this text about the L.A. riots in 1965 might give you a little understanding on what is happening now in Greece and the actions of the rioters.

www.bopsecrets.org/SI/10.Watts.htm

Posted by N.S. December 17, 08 09:31 AM
522.

Other than always protesting AGAINST, and expecting government handouts, what do Greek youths do FOR their communities? What civic engagement/community service do they organise to participate at the local level in their neighbourhoods -- as tutors, mentors, and role models for younger children to transform schools and the areas in which they live? Instead of always destroying and expecting more and more and endlessly more to be handed to them by their parents and government, what do they do to CREATE? As for the universities, the youth get what they ask for - poor institutions, as long as they oppose educational reforms to improve the system. I am sure this post will be responded to with angry, reactive, emotional responses that I do not understand, and have no idea what I am talking about. But as a civic community volunteer in numerous countries across Russia and Baltic States, Greece has been the only country where I have experienced youth asking withouth giving. The Greek youth only want to consume.

Posted by Maria December 17, 08 09:36 AM
523.

Dimitris you should be shame. You are jealous of a kid beacouse he was more rich than you. Eleos pia me ton kathe fasista. Ntropiazete ti xwra mas

Posted by anna December 17, 08 09:38 AM
524.

I believe in protest. I believe in addressing wrongs done to society. I believe in free speech and assembly. I am proud of the students and young adults who willingly participated in shaking up their country. I can only wish we would have done the same if McCain had been elected president. Here in the U.S. we have become lazy. Power to the people!

Posted by ElizabethfromMNUS December 17, 08 09:40 AM
525.

It's incredible...NO more words, more action!!!

Posted by Madriles_78 December 17, 08 09:42 AM
526.

The riots in Greece are disgusting and disturbing to say the least. Yes, people are truly ignorant to what really happened and what the underlying current truly is. Did anyone visiting Greece ever wonder "why the coffee shops are constantly full of reasonably young people from the morning till night?" If you were to sit in one coffee shop and watch - you would see the same people sitting there ALL day (not working), drinking coffee, smoking and talking with their friends! Guess what, these individuals don't want to work - why should they when Mom, Dad, YiaYia & Papou each hand out money to them on a daily basis so that their precious son doesn't have to work. They claim he can't find a job in his "field" - however, God forbid he should become a waiter, cleaner, etc., in the meantime until something better comes up. Their parents wouldn't allow that to happen! These people don't have a clue what it means to work hard to make a living to support a family and pay your bills! Times are hard all over - that's just an excuse. Anarchists have always existed in Greece (fueled by the Communists) - it's the easy way out. If they are so adamantly believing in what they are doing - they should be proud and not have to cover their faces and try to hide their identity - they should be willing to take the consequences to become martyrs for their cause! HaHa - just like the terrorist - they have to hide their faces!!!!! A true bunch of useless wimps and chickens. The area of Athens where this all began is by far the very WORST and MOST dangerous in Athens - full of drugs, etc. What in God's name was a 16 yr old boy doing in that area with his friends. Of course, there is always a lot of police presence there - terrible things have happened there. My nephew, who owns a taxi, can tell you stories of that area and people he has driven there that will make your hair stand on end! Is that the place to spend your birthday? These losers were throwing bottles with liquid in them at the police car that was parked near to them. Hence the reaction by police - I, and ANYONE, would have done the same! I have no pity for the boy who lost his life - he should have had better judgement as to the company he kept and the places he spent his time (so much free time)! And his parents should have had better control over their precious little boy! You reap the seeds you sow! People are too eager today to blame the government for all that happens to them - start growing up and taking responsibility for yourselves!!! The people make the government ! I am an American who lived in Greece for many years, married to a Greek and I love Greece - but am realistic to what the true problems are there!

Posted by P S Vouzikas December 17, 08 09:43 AM
527.

Keep going people! Just a reminder that don't whine when you don't get enough unemployment allowance when all the taxes go into repairing the stuff that has been broken/burnt. I understand protesting but why is everything destroyed?

Posted by Vasilis Protestoratis December 17, 08 09:44 AM
528.

ÔÏ 393

The F*** cops had been attacked some minutes earlier by a team of anarchists (a very usual scene in Athens...), but the "Rambo" murderer considered it would be wiser to show his ...shooting skills on the 15 y.o. boy.
However, do you really think that the cops should start shooting every time they "feel" they are getting attacked? Should we all walk around with a magnum and shoot every asshole who's provoking us? Or should the F*** cops do the same every time they are "in danger". Me, having the same wrights as the F*** cops, should I take a "Rambo" weapon and shoot all the Parliament just because they are sucking my blood and have turned my country into a chaos?
Have you ever been in a "do or die" scene in your Saturday night amusement? Because this is what the boy was doing and did mistake (if so, I don't know) by answering to the F*** cop's dammits.

Posted by Gostas December 17, 08 09:46 AM
529.

@491... Go be a f'n Greek you pinko wuss.

Posted by Proudly American December 17, 08 09:48 AM
530.

"You Americans. You'll never understand what is life and more over what democracy is. You only want to consume"

Hey, it's what we do. We are consumers. Don't hate us for it.

Posted by dave December 17, 08 09:54 AM
531.

All eye witnesses (plus a video) claim that nothing was being thrown at the policemen except insults and a few plastic water bottles. Insults and provocations came BOTH ways (How professional…).The incident with the glass bottle thrown at their police car had happened ten min EARLIER probably with another group of youth. The two policemen came without notifying their superiors, just for bravado exhibition (How professional… II). The victim (a shy well mannered upper-class kid), was probably caught in the middle, without even taking part at the insult exchange.
The general context is one of a series of corruption scandals, police brutality incidents against immigrants and large youth unemployment. But the local-historic context is even more important, look at wikipedia for Exarcheia and Athens Polytechnic Uprising.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exarcheia,_Athens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens_Polytechnic_uprising

Posted by christos December 17, 08 09:59 AM
532.

I am a greek that comes from Thessaloniki, but thank god I don't live there anymore. I leave in a small peaceful town, in which there are no punks like those that did what these amazing pictures show. The greek media infuriates and gives those hooligans an alibi. It is a tragedy what happened to the sixteen year old boy, but this is no excuse for the destruction that came after. Maybe a crazy cop killed a boy, that's not a reason to destroy and vandalize the lifes of so many. The economical crisis, unemployment for just being violent and cruel. To change things in our country, we must change the way we think. Seeing these pictures make me feel ashamed to be greek(usually I'm proud).........

Posted by a.k. December 17, 08 10:01 AM
533.

what are those americans on about "the us is great" only a d*ckhead yank would say that.. the us is the worst for cop force, and the cia, and fbi rule by fear is the rule in the us. they onloy have the big gun to intimidate people. demcacy???? ha ha ha you gotta be kiddin man . i simapathise with the parents and family of the young kid who got shot,,, but why was he the line of fire anyway??? and to what were the cops reacting to??? what was the stroy leading up to the cops firing their guns.. no smoke without fire i think is the legend.

Posted by dave harrison December 17, 08 10:02 AM
534.

Do this kind of stuff in the U.S. and the police will just murder you - unless you're burning down your own black neighborhood, or assaulting white people.

Posted by Hans Gruber December 17, 08 10:02 AM
535.

Keep going people! Just a reminder that don't whine when you don't get enough unemployment allowance when all the taxes go into repairing the stuff that has been broken/burnt. I understand protesting but why is everything destroyed?

Posted by Vasilis Protestoratis December 17, 08 10:06 AM
536.

Dr.Martin Luther King : "A time comes when silence is a betrayal." So true... When you KNOW in your HEART and SOUL what is the TRUTH, what is RIGHT, then FIGHT for it! Are you going to sit back and take it when YOUR son is KILLED? NO!

The saying that 'ONLY WHEN IT HAPPENS TO YOU, ONLY THEN YOU WILL KNOW THE BITTERNESS OF THEIR LIES' is true. Halfway around the world in Malaysia, I salute the protestors who fight for a better future. For every drop of blood and every tear, be ready to truly believe in your cause.

WE LAUGH AT YOU WITH OUR FISTS HIGH AND OUR EYES CRYING...
WE DESTROY THE PRESENT BECAUSE WE BUILD THE FUTURE.

Posted by Sha, Malaysia -- My spirit is with the fighters December 17, 08 10:10 AM
537.

Greek Communists, Church and stupid religions chaotic dark management (Vatopedio), Corrupted politicians, stupid and no hesitants Greek reporters, Brainwashing Media, unhealthy social structure are the things that have to be removed, in order a society to live in peace and revive the old civilization of Greece.
We are in Europe, and Europe seemed to be a solution for small countries like Greece. Europe is not united, Europe does not help, where are their strict measures?
Greece is a State of Europe remember? Who is going to fire against the religions dominance, whatever this religion is? I believe in God Alah, and whomever God is. Who is going to believe to humans? Who is going to believe in young generations, in their dreams, who is going to help them overcome their fears?
Before looking to the economy, look as Maslow have said to the Hierarchy of Human Needs. If you take care of this then the Philip' s curve will better off, and there would not be bandalisms, unemployment, inflation and all these that you have constructed.
Just a simple thought from me to share with you, and for those who misunderstood me, I really believe in God, but not in Human-Priests and their game which interacts with the game of the Politicians.
Greeks woke up, and remember we may be few, but we never surrendered in the whole history and that is why we have a history of thousands years. This goes to both internal and external bodies or any type of "administration or management"
Go ahead brothers; If you cannot change something, demolish it so we can build it from the start again and make it better and better;

Posted by Gustavo the Greek December 17, 08 10:10 AM
538.

To all people outside the US .......... please don't view us, as you see us painted through the Media. That's too easy for you to find fault with us and then use it against us. Do you really believe we are not alike? and want the same things in life? The extreme always gets the news clips. But never the majority. Rememeber: Americans are a combination of all nationalities’ and races , religions, creeds, etc….. and we all basically want the same things in life. People from your race, your country, your religion and all nationalities live here too. Most of us (MOST OF US ) are very much a-like . Most of us live and work for our families, for all the others in the US who have time to protest, they are not at work improving the life for themselves or for our children. It’s all BS. The Bush elections were shady and possibly (very) were forced upon us. Look at Bush’s presidential approval rating ( the lowest in history ever) we are not all Bush loving People. I would say hardly any of us are. Look at out election this time , the people could not be denied and we didn’t elect another Bush and never will. And think about this: Even though we all disapprove of Bush for the most part, the shoes getting thrown at him the other day, ironically show the world a sign of the successful liberation, in the past, that reporter would have been beaten and Killed, but the mere fact he was able to protest is a sign of how the world has changed for the better. And he may just be released, how is that for change.

Posted by Paul December 17, 08 10:12 AM
539.

Ok, i read all the comments. I am proud to say i am GREEKAMERICAN. I understand why they are riotting, and i respect them for standing up to the government. I don't beleive however they should be trashing greece and it's cities.
They should go the people that run the government (the money hungry bastards ) and torch and trash their homes and property! Not mom and pop shops that are trying to make ends meet.
And by the way, George Bush was NOT elected 2 times!!! (not even sure he was elected the first time) The corrupt US government rigged the whole thing and put his STUPID A$$ BACK IN POWER! (How you think he won Florida? His brother was governor for crying out loud!!) It's all for their own interests/pockets and they don't give a crap about the people of America. Weapons of mass destruction my a$$.
Seems the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. :(

Posted by MayGODhelpusall December 17, 08 10:21 AM
540.

As an American living in America, I'd just like to say that I like all the unrest. If the 'man' is killing people for fun something needs to change. If I was there I would join in. I have many friends who feel the same way as many of these posters do about America. I find that they are lazy and don't want to create a better life for themselves, so they do the next best thing: blame Capitalists.

Posted by American Silverback December 17, 08 10:21 AM
541.

It's interesting how some of the comments here express anger at the rioters and claim the police are only doing their jobs, a warning shot should be fired *upwards* not at a 15 year old child.

One policeman is being arrested for murder and not the police as a whole, yet people blame all the other violence on ALL of the protesters - not just the ones who committed the crimes.

Not all of the rioters set fire to cars, not all of the rioters set fire to shops. Those people were individuals who should be accountable for their own actions.

Posted by zoe December 17, 08 10:23 AM
542.

I'm just glad that i see all these opinions, from american-european-asian people (it doesn't matter if i agree or not), but where are the africans??? Oh i forgot, we let them die from starvation!!!!
When will people understand that when people around them are happy, they will be happy too...
Greek found democracy a long ago... let us protest, let us riot, don't hurry up to judge us (especially from 10 or 20 photos), maybe something good will come out of it again, we promise we will give it to the whole world again :) maybe your life will get better also!
Supportttt

Posted by Antonios December 17, 08 10:25 AM
543.

Brilliant. Destroy your own country, loot your own shops, drive international businesses out of your country, and leave it as a third-world pesthole nobody wants to invest in. And hurt innocent people, burn their cars, destroy their livelihood. Absolute GENIUS.

Also, I am quite glad I live in the United States. Here, in my state, it is legal to use lethal force to stop an act of arson, particularly against an occupied structure. Because that is attempted murder. You can bet I would have my legally owned rifle out, and if I saw such a thing on my street, the molotov-thrower would be very quickly put down. Because that's "maintaining civilization" to do so.

Posted by Common Sense December 17, 08 10:26 AM
544.

@527: You amaze me with your ignorance and stupidity. But what do I expect? You probably voted Bush in his second term.

FYI, consumers in other words are leechers.

Posted by Exasperated at stupidity December 17, 08 10:29 AM
545.

I commend these people for their actions. This would happen more often here if Americans grew some brains and a backbone.

Posted by A Sympathizer December 17, 08 10:31 AM
546.

nice photos,stupid comments...
I dont exclude mine..
A. from athens

Posted by A. Adams December 17, 08 10:39 AM
547.

attack the guilty ,dont attack and burn the innocent -do not let yourself become them.

Posted by rickki johnson December 17, 08 10:43 AM
548.

There has to be a better way than rioting and looting. When Americans came to their senses and saw a corrupt administration for what it was, we staged civil protests, organized the youth, and voted the republican party out of power. Now we have a democtratic majority in Congress, and a democratic president-elect coming into office in January. With America's place in the global community, this is something that will affect the world in a positive manner. Setting fire to civilian cars/stores won't solve the problem, it won't change the law. It will give the government all the more reason to use excessive force, to declare a form of martial law. I'm not saying you shouldn't protest or fight the powers that be, but try to do something that doesn't affect the innocent. A lot of people would be more willing to help out someone who's fighting for change intelligently instead of giddily throwing moltov cocktails and breaking windows screaming about revolution.

Posted by dgtheory December 17, 08 10:43 AM
549.

I have read a lot of interesting views here, i only have three comments for you... I'm Greek too, however I see things from a different perspective... First of all, i can not blame all these people for the rage they feel after the boy was killed, it is totally justifiable, but i believe that the way they choose to express it has absolutely the opposite effect.. now people are terrified even to go to a demonstration, and riots give the government the opportunity to use even more violence to restore order (many grreks even support this view!). Secondly, one must separate the spontaneous reaction of many young people from the organized moves of so called anarchists (everybody in Greece knows some of them have links with the secret service, there are even photos of hooded persons among policemen!). Thirdly, in my opinion, a true revolutionary does not wear hoods to hide their face, they struggle with pride for what they believe is just. Look at what has happened the last few days.. so much has been said about the riots, has anybody said anything about the tens of thousands of people who have demonstrated with a clear face, spreading their claims, convincing other people to struggle with them? in my opinion, those are the true heroes, the true revolutionaries, those who understand that things like that will always happen unless we create a different society, unless we overthrow the system. And those people will continue fighting until the final victory, while the others will soon get tired and stop. that's exactly what the system wants, it wants young people to express their fury now, let off steam now, and then get disappointed and go home. I know some of you may disagree, but this is the truth as I see it.


Posted by L December 17, 08 10:44 AM
550.

It took me long to read every single post on this thread but I did it, and I noticed a funny pattern about it. Every 10 american posters 5 of them will bash Greece out of pure ignorance, another 4 will complain that posters are bashing USA, and 1 out of 10 will make an intelligent, meaningful comment. Then after every 10 americans 1 non-american will make a comment regarding USA, usually as a response to the attacks by the 50% mentioned above, and then the cycle starts all over again. Americans are the ones who started criticising the incidents and attacking other nations, provoking reactions on themselves, and they're also the ones who complain more about being attacked. Maybe instead of being closet-internet warrior/bullies you should take the example of the Greeks and take the matter into your own hands, in the real life, out on the streets. But I guess it's easier to judge people and situations that you don't understand rather than trying to understand them (because the latter requires more energy). If you guys don't want people to make negative comments about your country then don't make about theirs, unless you actually enjoy provoking hostile comments so that you can brag on how rich and powerful you are. 90% of attacking on other countries in this thread are being made by americans, as well as 90% of complaints. It's pathetic.

Posted by Anonymos December 17, 08 11:08 AM
551.

As a 21-year old, Turkish student, I envy you guys, I wish our people were as much as honorable as you are. It's so sad that there is so many events like this in Turkey that people are getting used to it and stopping reacting.

Anyway, keep up the good fight brothers and sisters, you are teaching a lesson to this world.

p.s. You american bitches should really shut the fuck up about things you'll never get to understand.

Posted by Alp December 17, 08 11:10 AM
552.

My heart goes out to the boy's family and the cop's family. Lets not lose them in these arguments. May God give them peace and rest.

Posted by Rennard December 17, 08 11:11 AM
553.

Agapiti Anna,
I dont know if Alexis was richer than me (Actually I had the luck of having a well-off father that lost all his money when I was a kid, so all of my life I have been fighting to be able to go to the university, to find a decent job etc) In contrast to most of you, that your participation in burning Athens, your school, your university exhausts the scope of your efforts, there are a lot of people in Greece that try to get as much as possible from our bad educational system (at least when people like you do not close or burn it), and then go on trying to do their best in the admitedly difficult and unfair economic system that all countries more or less have. The difference is that these people have the courage to face reality and work hard to make the best out of it-while at the same time trying to improve the system mainly through their actions. These people also avoid characterizations like "fascist" which you address to me, when someone analyses the facts. The facts point to the absurdity of self styled "anarchists" (Bakounin must move in his grave now...) burning Athens because some rich kid was shot by a cop in an accident. Everyday more people are killed in Greece due grave negligence from people who do public works...

Posted by dimitris December 17, 08 11:12 AM
554.

Nice photos but… what we are looking at ?
Do anyone of you really know?
Do you really know if the guy with the molotov is a student or not?
Do you think, that was all about, to burn and destroy?

One thing is sure, that governments are afraid of people who think, criticize and protest . No government likes people to protest and demand. Because almost no government cares about the citizens.
So what does a government to stop a protesting crowd, to mute it's voice, to stop its growth? It turns a peaceful and powerful protest into this. It transforms all protesters to anarchists . It turns public opinion against them.
200 people are enough to make a great protest looks like vandalism .
This is a tactic that Greek government knows well. All these years there are a few groups supported from the Greek government and act when they have instructions to do so, just to stop protests. With the same way every time. It’s a fact that all of them are well known to the police and some of them are policemen.
It's a tactic well know to Americans also. History shows that Americans used it a lot, just to replace governments in deferent countries, for their benefit. They were paying a few dozen of people just to make an incident to a country and then with media’s help that was shown like it had national dimensions.
In that protest there were about 3000-4000 protesters. Do you think that 4000 people were burning and destroying? There were only 200 people and some of them were policemen, dressed up like punks.
Actually there was a group of people that destructed a lot of banks, not civilian’s property not cars. That was a political act against the stiff banking system .Greek population is suffering today from illegal banking measures which were forced with government’s help.

So before some of you write your theories about Greece please have in mind that no protester burned or destroyed civilian’s properties.
They just protested against the government for their rights and for a better life. If you still believe that what happened was wrong, just try to do it with a better way . Don’t sit to your couch with your laptop and commend what some others tried to do, not for you, but for their lives. Except if you think that everything is fine to your country and your trustworthy government will take care of you. Ha! Sorry my friend.
Sorry for my bad English.
Katior

Posted by katior December 17, 08 11:12 AM
555.

I am sorry for the destruition in some cities with a History of the birth of democracy for the rest of the world. In a democrat country there are diferent ways for protesting.

Posted by maria rosa matos December 17, 08 11:13 AM
556.

I am Kurdish and live in Turkey, We support ,and proud of you !!! comrades in Greece,we hope in here workers,students also impress from the riots...I believe All people losing their jobs,their lives one by one will understand they have noting to lose,like the Nissan workers in spain did,like the Latin workers in Chicago rebublic fabric did,we will fight!

Posted by Serhildan_ÝnoPasaran! December 17, 08 11:13 AM
557.

This is pathetic.

People rioting is not an intelligent (or effective) way to protest their government. It's a pathetic cry for attention that will only be received with violence and them being looked down upon. You won't reform your leaders, and you're not going to convince them with your wonderful acts of violence. It's extremely counterproductive.

There's a difference between rioting and protest. If parts of the nation were to rise up against the government in an effort to overthrow and renew it (a guaranteed right in the United States constitution), they'd likely be a bit more organized and would focus on attacking and controlling government buildings, as opposed to going out into the street and causing shit.

The stuff they're doing solves jack shit and is in no way productive. Is the life of one 15 year old kid a reason to destroy entire communities? These people are idiots. Breaking things won't help their cause, whatever it may be.

...what are they even trying to accomplish? For the most part it seems to be they're simply utilizing the mob mentality and destroying shit for the sake of doing it.

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 11:21 AM
558.

LET IT ALL FALL!!!!

Posted by Drew December 17, 08 11:29 AM
559.

To you Greeks out there--I am from North Dakota USA. I'm deeply moved by the pictures here. I am 21 and a college student here. I don't fully know what or why the riots occured. But what I do admire is the people of Greece - people whom I now know will fight for ideals and beliefs and that actions taken by the government are NOT ALWAYS JUSTIFIED. I wish our people would be alive, feel passion and ANGER like the Greeks. Tragedies like the shooting of that child happen all the time here, and no one bats an eye because everyone thinks the government had a DUTY to do what it did. Although I do not believe in the firearm rules of Greece-I do NOT support gun crime. Firearms are necessary to defend themselves from tyrannical government and criminals. Not to shoot innocent children, police or citizen. I wish you all peace in the future. G


Although I do o

Posted by Tim Rohloff December 17, 08 11:34 AM
560.

Amazing photos !


Posted by Felipe Loureiro December 17, 08 11:35 AM
561.

I fully support the rioters at greece. Americans just don't get it, do they? The people have the RIGHT to fight against a corrupt government and police brutality. Peaceful protesting doesn't scare the government - it's just a waste of time. The riots will remind the government to fear and respect it's people. Now I'm sure that we won't hear about police shooting 15 year old boys in greece for a long time - say what you will about the riots, but at least THIS they acomplished.

Posted by brazilian December 17, 08 11:37 AM
562.

To all the Greek, American, European, etc haters: Wise up. ALL countries have their downsides. Americans: LA riots, Watts riots, New Orleans riots. French: Muslim ghetto riots. The list goes on.
Until people realize we are more alike than not and treat each other accordingly this world will continue to suck big time.

Posted by J-dizzle December 17, 08 11:39 AM
563.

Please do not let the 'Americans' who say 'This is why America is great' speak for all Americans. They are usually the uneducated Americans who have never been out of the country. So they often make many assumptions and believe whatever the flickering box tells them.

America needs more of this. America needs more riots. Dissension is what America was founded on but somewhere along the way we lost our angst. We walk around looking at our own feet as we shuffle along and as long as it doesn't affect us personally we ignore it. So bravo to everyone who participated.

Posted by Brian December 17, 08 11:39 AM
564.

Greece,
Bulgaria is with you.

We passed many times through this kind of protests. People should always fight for their rights. Keep it this way and you will win.

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 11:40 AM
565.

Hello.
All you out there who bother to read and write in the internet, who bother to search and find what is happening in the world, you all know that there is good and there is bad - in everything.
Especially in our own human kind.
Some actions are justified and some are not. But at the end the history decides if anything of that really mattered and made a difference.
I am against violence, vandalism, cruelty, theft. But I am also against suppression, physical and mental, against manipulation of people, against violation of rules and justice by the people who vowed to protect them, against corruption of the political and economical powerful.
The anarchy and the chaos of the present world economy came from people who manipulate the whole planet for their own interest. Conspiracy theories are not my best but prove me wrong. If we tolerate anarchy and chaos from our governments, why react if we see anarchy and chaos in the streets? The first is actual, the second is just visual.
We all belong to different nations and have different ways of conceiving reality.
Thank god there is internet and I can come closer to your reality, away of political and media influence. I can read what unifies and what differentiates us as thinking people from all over the world.
From my Greek reality I tell you this. A time comes when enough is enough. This time maybe now or maybe not. A lot of students, with a lot of politicized people, with a lot of violent extremists went down in the streets – not necessarily unified - to protest that “enough”. Some were guilty of violent acts just for the fun of it, but the rest they just wanted to be heard shouting “enough”. And the rest of us staying home in front of our tv, taking care of our kids, going to work, following our routines, we all wanted to hear them. And so a few other countries I think.
There was a cause. There was a reason. There was reaction. There was good and there was bad. But there was reaction. And reaction is life. We can not stay inactive forever.

Posted by Marian-Greece December 17, 08 11:41 AM
566.

Violence to Police's terorism!

Posted by Jiggy December 17, 08 11:47 AM
567.

Wow, this is a depressing thread. A child was butchered, and you people have tried to make this a referendum on American values, and or, violence as an acceptable means of civil unrest.

Yes, there are ignorant people in America. Number 311 demonstrates this. If anything, the hyperbolic rhetoric and paranoia (i.e. "muslim empire" , "socialist president" ) that comes from this type of person, should disqualify them from any type of serious debate. Its hard to take them serious, even if they can point to a capital city on a map.

Yet, clearly this type of mindset exists around the world. (i personally chose to admonish my compatriot, because his statements reflect an embarrassingly xenophobic element of an otherwise great people and country ). Look at all the bombastic statements on this tread. Just like these accusational statements have made intelligent discussion on a serious debate impossible, the violence in Greece has overshadowed a legitimate problem in Greek polity. This is not paris in 1968. When the violence is settled, those outside the debates will not remember the 15 year boy, or even the reason behind the protest--- Just the meaningless destruction.

Posted by Tim December 17, 08 11:51 AM
568.

While the boy may have been innocent, I certainly believe the 'peaceful protesters' that were throwing the Molotov Cocktails and burning the police should be shot. Immediately.

Posted by Level22 December 17, 08 11:53 AM
569.

beatifull pictures

Posted by Eelco December 17, 08 11:54 AM
570.

Wish we Americans stood up MORE and held our police accountable for their actions. This stuff happens here ALL THE TIME. I think you Greeks are awesome for standing together over Police abuse. Yeah it's a frustrating job, but we the taxpayer, pay their salaries to show restraint and uphold the laws we vote on. Not to impose their beliefs or take out their own aggressions or to make their quotas! Cheers to you Greeks! love, Texas

Posted by TexRuss December 17, 08 11:58 AM
571.

I've spent two days reading these comments and i will tell you this. In the Netherlands, the newspapers and television have all but ignored what is going on in greece, and when there was news, it was only about the riots, and none about the peaceful protests. Also, they never tired to point out that the riots and protests were all about the boy that was killed by the police. There was not a word about the underlying reasons, a lot of which i have read in the above comments of greek people themselves. To everybody who is not involved in this, but get their info from the media: Don't trust what you read or see on television. You are being misled and lulled as usual. Listen to the Greek people themselves havee to say about it.on these pages. They are absolutely right. Violence is the last resort. when people have nothing and see that what they have is stolen from them, they have a right to react.
We are all, europeans an americans alike, being misled and robbed of our money, our freedom and our future. We're being lied to by politicians and the media. The people are kept ignorant and in poor slavery, while billions of euro's and dollars are being burnt in the bonfire of vanities.

I wish everyone here a good and fruitfull new year and to the people of Athens and Greece: My heart is with you.


Posted by Vincent December 17, 08 11:59 AM
572.

didn't the greeks kill each other in old times for the joy to see someone get killed. Think about your history. You say americans are evil. Think about your ansestors that watched as men killed each other in arenas for fun. Wow how short sighted you guys are. Sure it is a sad thing when a 15 year old gets killed. But I am not going to kill 1000 people and cause millions if not billions of dollars in damage because of it. PS the only reason you think Americans are bad is because we stick up for people that cannot defend themselves. Why don't you guys become like the french and just give in when ever you come across some adversity?

Posted by Geoff December 17, 08 12:02 PM
573.

ZITO ELLAS ! PAMEA ELLADA!

Posted by Niko December 17, 08 12:04 PM
574.

Ok, ok, ok. So obviously there is a lot of tension going on here. Listen, people have the right to protest, but they don't have to be mega a-holes about it. Vandalizing? That's just dumb, it only makes the people you vandalized hide behind the government for protection.

Posted by The Boss December 17, 08 12:10 PM
575.

Darksun 451: If human life was important to the rioters, why then would they be immolating humans with molotav cocktails? Why are they destroying department stores that had nothing to do with the rioting? No, the message here isn't that Greeks place a high value on human life, it is rather that many Greeks feel disenfranchised and betrayed by their leaders and government and feel the need to lash out violently. You can not put a noble face on attempted homicide and general violence and mayhem.

Posted by Rob December 17, 08 12:15 PM
576.

Wish we Americans stood up MORE and held our police accountable for their actions. This stuff happens here ALL THE TIME. I think you Greeks are awesome for standing together over Police abuse. Yeah it's a frustrating job, but we the taxpayer, pay their salaries to show restraint and uphold the laws we vote on. Not to impose their beliefs or take out their own aggressions or to make their quotas! Cheers to you Greeks! love, Texas

Posted by TexRuss December 17, 08 12:18 PM
577.

so people if i suffer injustice by any goverment body i know the solution...i'll come and burn all of your houses down... then you will be angry and then we all together bring the goverment down....

seriously is this the new logic??? it doesn't sound right to me?!

maybe when i burn all of your houses then i am sure you will help me understand that i was right to do so ...since as the Greek say ' o skopos agiazi ta mesa'
or does it???

Posted by Elina December 17, 08 12:19 PM
578.

valte mialo malakes ... pigenete sta sxolia sas ... ke ginete ipefhina atoma etsi oste na mporesete na vrite dulia .. timate tous gonis pou kathe mera sas skeftonte ... ke min akoute xeiragogous ... diavaste gia na exete kritiki skepsi ...

----
wise up ... go to school ... be responsible individuals in order to get a job ... honor your parents who think of you all the times ... study and read books in order to develop critical thinking ...

Posted by yiorgos December 17, 08 12:23 PM
579.

Democracy, a Greek word.
Demo (people) - cracy (hold).

Power to the people.
I am Greek and i am proud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Nick December 17, 08 12:29 PM
580.

@305
""Seriously, this is why the US is so great. This kind of thing doesn't happen here.""

lol..
C'mon American, dont comment on issues that you dont quiet understand..Aren't you supposed to be watching Gladiators..


Posted by Nate_River December 17, 08 12:31 PM
581.

I speak from the perspective of a dissatisfied American. I would agree with the majority of these posts that excessive violence, especially misguided violence such as breaking shop windows and looting is intolerable, but I side with the Greek people for standing against injustice. We need a lot more of that here in America.
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." - Excerpt from the Declaration of Independence

We must be stubbornly opinionated because if we are not and we become indifferent to these social injustices then we will be walked all over. I can't say I know the Greek mindset, but if they have attempted non-violent protest and it has proven ineffective then power to them for taking the next step.

...but really guys, try not to set anyone on fire.

Posted by Stephen December 17, 08 12:42 PM
582.

These kids will someday regret their rioting. It's better than regretting standing idle, doing nothing like most of us do.

Great photos too. The girl in #7 is a real amazon!

Posted by W. Jungermann December 17, 08 12:57 PM
583.

I'm an American teenager, and I'm not ignorant. And I'm certainly not lazy. I've lived in other countries besides the USA, and there are so many god-awful, dumb stereotypes I hear about America. like, that we're uneducated, that we couldn't understand, and that we are flat out lazy. Come here, and you will meet some of the most hardworking people there are. Come here and you will meet some of the kindest people who are willing to understand whatever you're going through, if we haven't been through it before ourselves. Come here and you will meet some of the smartest people with voices and dreams..Guaranteed. (however, Its a shame those hardworking people don't get to keep their money, hey thanks Obama. Not.)
But to the Greek youth, what the hell are you doing? No one can take you seriously if you act by force. All you're doing is damaging. You're not earning anything. You want respect? You want people to take you seriously? Figure things out the smarter way. Prove to the world you aren't just wreckless youth just trying to destroy and manipulate things. Prove that you're better than that. Cause I'm a teenager myself, and I know what its like to beunderestimated and for people to judge you based on age. Prove that age is just a number. Or, go ahead and keep doing what you're doing. But there is bound to be horrible consequences. Just be ready to deal with them. Good luck. I love Europe. Haha. By the way - Fantastic Pictures!

Posted by Danielle!!! December 17, 08 01:14 PM
584.

what do u mean you could not imagine this happening in the usa? l.a. riots? hello?

Posted by 100 d-ps December 17, 08 01:20 PM
585.

after 2000 years that cristianity murder greek spirit, i'm proud that i am GREEK!!

Posted by ylistis December 17, 08 01:24 PM
586.

Marian (#565):

Thank you for your thoughtful, eloquent post. Thank you for helping folks like me understand what might be fueling the riots in your country. It seems similar to the causes of riots anywhere - a population that has been frustrated and powerless for a long time finally hits the breaking point and erupts into violence. Hopefully the problems that gave rise to this fury will now have to be addressed by those in power. I wish you and your country well.

Posted by Kibby (USA) December 17, 08 01:24 PM
587.

Poster Zack: Get a life you say? How about you get a brain? I love the reasoning 'it happens all the time here' so it must be ok.

Honestly, if you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion please kindly do the world a favor and 'stfu'. The last thing the world needs is another ill informed american; whom's own sense of self importance and righteousness creates in them a state of needing to give voice to the cogniscient garbage that occupy's your forntal lobes.

Posted by AdamBanks December 17, 08 01:27 PM
588.

It does happen here. Sean Bell NYC a couple of months ago! Everyone should read Making a Killing by Bob Torres. Though its about animal rights, its extremely insightful into our class systems here in the US and how the middle class and lower are kept pacified unknowingly.

Posted by People put the shade over their heads December 17, 08 01:37 PM
589.

This is ridiculous. The rioters have long lost the shimmer of respect, and they are now just a bunch of idiots tearing thier own country apart. With the world economy the way it is everyone is suffering, well accept the super rich, so get in line.

Rioting for this long, this strong, is BS. Let's get on with democracy. What a piss poor example these Greeks are making, being the birth place of democracy and all. SHAME!

Posted by Dav December 17, 08 01:41 PM
590.

Breathing slowly, mechanical heartbeat
losing contact with the living
Almighty TV plugged, hybrid empty brain
don't see anything real in the game
The tension is building constantly
No reason just a reflex I have, driven by clockwork
I try to keep an eye open
And I realize I haven't closed my eyes in a long time

Posted by Gojira December 17, 08 01:49 PM
591.

The sickness of this world is destroying all the dreams
The fools are kings, tearing apart the soul
The race for complication communicate reaction
The lack of heart of men, I grow distant from the core

Posted by Gojira December 17, 08 01:50 PM
592.

I speak from the perspective of a young American who is extremely dissatisfied with the way that our country is run today. These pictures and some of the comments on this page blow my mind. I am a person who never sees violence as a means of change. Violence can indeed bring change but is that the driver that you want for a new improved society? In America we face many of the challenges that it seems the people of Greece are facing (not being there I do not know the whole story, only what I can read). For me personally living in Michigan I see many of these struggles first hand (high un-employment, high health care costs, corruption in government). Though we face many of the same challenges we do not result to violence over specific incidents. Though it seems to me that this police officer was a criminal and deserves punishment, does the fact that he is a police officer and not just another low life on the street give people the right to tear the city apart endangering the property and lives of people who do not see those actions as just?

We as a world have lost a sense of balance that we so desperately need to regain. I agree that the youth that is rioting does not seem to have any idea of the blessings that they have in capitalism and the issues that they will run into in communism. There is no perfect system and any system is flawed when in the hands of corrupt leadership. What I do believe makes a system great is the idea of accountability and peaceful change when change is needed. I am not saying that the political system here in America is perfect (as I have had the chance to vote in 2 presidential elections in which I did not think there was a good candidate) but the ability to force change through term limits and elections is a good thing. I think that if we could enter the idea of accountability into leadership instead of heartfelt speeches and more excuses we would be better off.

To some of the bitter Americans posting on this site...there are many people in your shoes. I think many of us in America are guilty of exactly what people are accusing some of these young Greeks of. We complain and complain when things are going bad for us, but when we enjoy the fruits of the same system we do nothing. Instead of just complaining, get out there and work for change. Complaints without actions generally will change nothing.

To the Greeks, I wish you all the best in this difficult situation. Please do not do what I feel that many people in our country have done. Quite often we become so blinded by emotion and rage that we do not recognize when good change has begun, or we are quick to jump on board with the next person making heartfelt speeches that sound good without presenting results.

Posted by Person for Change December 17, 08 01:52 PM
593.

Solidarity from the United States! Keep fighting the good fight!

And the people who believe that there are no workers involved in this are fools.

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 01:54 PM
594.

Interesting juxtaposition. So you've got a deceased boy and police officer who killed him. The former having come from wealth, and the latter - working class. I am confused about the rioting, and the general direction, in general. I am a Greek American woman, living in Los Angeles. My parents are from Northern Greece, and I have been there many times. Greece is so damn disorganized, and it seemed to be that they finally got it together a bit....... now what? I don't get the whole looting thing, or burning your fellow working class.

Posted by Maria Topalidis Dziubla December 17, 08 02:00 PM
595.

Nice pictures

Don t forget that violence is a monopoly of the state.
Let's not make our country a free market in that respect.
Democracy shouldn't become a political excuse for suppression.
We have to try hard and win!
And to those posters who think that shooting protesters is the solution, i remind:

kai palin de kserksou grapsantos pempswn ta opla, antegrapse molon lave!
(Zerxis asked again to lower their weapons but he (leonidas) replied again....come and get them)

Posted by Aristeidis the-not-so-just December 17, 08 02:07 PM
596.

That's what happens in Greece when more than 20 schoolboys are bored to go to school. It's a fashion here... Judging from the quality of our public (government funded) schools there is a serious reason for someone not to like going to school... so, I guess that everything fits with the facts and you can get the whole picture...

Message to the world : Thmmy (or Electrical Engineering Department) in Aristotelium University of Thessaloniki sucks pretty much... more than you can ever think...

A greek university student.

Posted by KGB December 17, 08 02:12 PM
597.

About the recent developments and the manifestations concerning the murder of the 15 year old boy:

Resolution of the Central Committee of KKE (Communist Party of Greece)

Posted by Belogianni December 17, 08 02:17 PM
598.

ive only had the stomach to read a few of these comments so my opinion is in no way directed toward everyone. First, i am an american, and very proud of it. I will be the first of the comments that i have read to acknowledge that i dont know what its like to live in another country with its own distinct internal issues. What i can say is that in no country is it going to solve any serious social, economic or government issue by rioting in the streets, burning down local businesses, causing harm and danger towards innocent bystanders, attacking police (unless your fighting the nazi stormtroopers, regular street police are paid to look out for the populace's well being; this coming from a person who has had many unfortunate run ins with as*hole police officers), and creating a mob mentality that is going to do more harm to young people. I read a "palestinian communist's" opinion up there and you are entitled to your belief, but how are mass riots in the streets of civilized countries (Greece being the creator of democracy) going to spark any kind of mass revolution? I remember the hungarians in the fifties rioting in the streets against the oppressive communist regime and they got gunned down. Rioting is a weak, unorganized, dangerous and counterproductive method of expressing your distain for government action. I hope someone who is REALLY looking to change things in greece steps up in a positive direction. Good luck greece.

Posted by tom December 17, 08 02:33 PM
599.

Greek SWAT forces have to have their private identification number visible, like ordinary police.

Posted by Leo December 17, 08 02:36 PM
600.

Hooligans destroying their own towns and neighboring home. Vandalizing their own history. PIece of crap - not justice. Just a moronic way of practicing self-therapy.

And by the way, someone mentioned communism here. Fuck communism and fuck those idiots who never lived under communism, fuck those idiots who like Che Guevera's sexy modernist images, which has been abused and raped by hippie morons who have no idea who really Che was or what he was doing.

Also, fuck those idiots who believe Obama will bring "revolution" :)


Posted by MArciello December 17, 08 02:39 PM
601.

I'M AN ATHENIAN 33YRS OLD WITH A GOOD BUSINESS IN THE CENTER OF ATHENS. THERE IS ALOT OF TALKING GOING ON IN THIS BLOG, JUST LIKE IS HAPPENING IN GREECE RIGHT NOW. PEOPLE GLOBALLY ARE DIVIDED ON THIS ISSUE. WE ARE ALL (GLOBALLY) GOOD PEOPLE.
TO FIGURE OUT WHICH SIDE YOU ARE ON, ASK YOURESELF A SIMPLE QUESTION: WOULD I PREFER SOMEBODY BURN AND LUTE MY SHOP OR SOMEBODY MURDER MY SON?

Posted by Emmanuel December 17, 08 02:50 PM
602.

Demonstrations and boycotting are one thing, events which display power and unity. But violence, especially at this extreme a level, is disorganized, petty, and not going at all at the root of any issues.

Americans have already seen this with the Rodney King riots in the 90's. The result was not justice, but destruction and theft by misguided and selfish hoodlums that took advantage of a sensitive situation. Innocent individuals who had built their businesses from scratch were affected. And yet, the ones that were at the root of the issues were relatively unaffected.

This isn't a revolution. It's needless destruction that doesn't strike at the heart of government, but in the pockets of innocents.

Posted by Dave Park December 17, 08 02:51 PM
603.

The consensus is true. Americans don't practice their right fight. It minimally happened at the RNC, but many were duped as if inside of a government exercise. We clearly have reasons to be a presence and destroy banks, but it doesn't happen.
People need to understand the point that is made potently clear by these photos; collectively we have power. and screw you 365

Posted by coko December 17, 08 03:00 PM
604.

Anarchy is not communism. Too separate definitions and ideals.

Posted by shade again December 17, 08 03:01 PM
605.

have the delusion that they are reenacting the commune of Paris, and , since the police, instead of controling them in the way the police does in all free democratic countries, leaves them utouched, feel free to break everything that is in front of them. All the "tearfull" discussions about police violence is pure fabrication-the Greek police is only capable of giving parking tickets these days...because that is the king of police that the pseudo-liberal journalistic establishment want. The fact that organized crime has become very strong because of that, the fact that private property is not protected (of the poor and middle class people of cource-the rich have bodyguards) is something that these whining, lazy half-literate, stone

As a Greek, I have to apologize for the behaviour of these moronic pseudo-anarchists compatriots of mine, who in their relative illiteracy have been confused by philosophical and sociological theories that rae much above their mental caliber...Greece is not more corrupt then the rest developed European countries, and contary to the popular myth, it has a much more even distribution of wealth than a lot of other devoloped countries. What Greece has, and the rest countries do not, is a generation of parents brought up with delusions about the significance in history of Paris during May 68 as well as the role of Polytechneion in the fall of the Greek junta in 1974. They have portrayed resistance to the authorities as the ultimate act of bravery. Their kids brought up with these ideas, have the delusion that they are reenacting the commune of Paris, and , since the police, instead of controling them in the way the police does in all free democratic countries, leaves them utouched, feel free to break everything that is in front of them. All the "tearfull" discussions about police violence is pure fabrication-the Greek police is only capable of giving parking tickets these days...because that is the king of police that the pseudo-liberal journalistic establishment want. The fact that organized crime has become very strong because of that, the fact that private property is not protected (of the poor and middle class people of cource-the rich have bodyguards) is something that these whining, lazy half-literate, stone throwing little brats have never thought of. It is interesting to examine the lifes of the two people involved in the event that "triggered" the demonstrations. The rich kid, with a house with a pool in an exclusive suburb, goes for kicks everywhere where unrest exists, knowing that his parents can save him from anything-he is allowed to offend, to throw rocks, to burn other people's houses (his house is in an area where no rock-thrower can approach...). The unlucky policeman (poor guy with three kids, from a poor village) in attacked by the groups in which the rich kid mingles. The rich kid is shot by the policemen, after he is attacked by the rock throwing group of Alexis Grigoropoulos. Then the whole of Greece gets burned....If the story was not true, it would sound like a bad joke...One can ask the question who is the priviledged and who the unpriviledged, who is right and who is wrong, do the events have any relationship with what happened afterwards?
Posted by Dimitris December 17, 08 08:53 AM

Posted by hes right December 17, 08 03:03 PM
606.

This reminds me of the LA riots when few policemen beat up a black man, Rodney King. The violence of the rioters was aimed at innocent people and property. Many angry rioters also took advantage and began looting. Thus, there was widespread theft. What came out of this? Nothing good. What suprises me in Greece though is that these are college students who are educated and supposedly civilized !! There is nothing civil about what is going on in Athens.

It appears that the different factions such as the communist party are also on the side of the rioters thus creating more upheavel for their own political gain rather than for the good of the whole nation.

As much as the general population fears the police and/or any kind of authority, they cannot live in a nation without a strong security for the people. GOD help the citizens of Greece if the government and its police force lose all control and the nation falls into ANARCHY ! then they will be begging for strong police intervention.

Posted by Kiki December 17, 08 03:10 PM
607.

I don't think that these riots aren't really worth because my opinion is that this cop will be charged with 3 years of jail time and that's all... there's of course the possibility to be murdered in jail by the time he's there just because he's a cop.
We are really frustrated and when we heard about that we lost our temper and started throwing things to the policemen! It's really inacceptable for our country to see cops killing children instead of protecting us...

Posted by Orpheas December 17, 08 03:17 PM
608.

A riot will leave many scars I know .. I have a scar (Romania 1989) but it wasn't in vain trust me ... here you will see some pictures http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKkHUIlTMHU and here you can read about it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Revolution_of_1989

Sometimes you must be bad to do some good.

Posted by Kategra December 17, 08 03:19 PM
609.

Ok, I read all comments... Ok i see many opinions... But to have an opinion your must first have the facts. To have the facts you must first learn them. To learn them you must first learn to read (not so sure for some pple here).
The facts for greece: Government and parties are involved in a number of scandals and ofc nobody was to blame in justice. Police officers are involved in a number of killings and ofc nobody was to blame in justice. All the informations we get from TV, newspapers etc are all corrupted with lies, depending who they support. Judges let politicals, jurnilsts and police officers get away with those things.

Posted by ilier December 17, 08 03:24 PM
610.

Looking at Greece I can only express my admiration and envy.
At least not all Europeans are sitting in front of the TV watching the last reality show and bleating like sheep.
Greece fighters are trying to overthrow a perverse system and my only hope is that this flame spreads around our continent.
Thank you Greece!

Posted by Ekhi December 17, 08 03:27 PM
611.


Students, Scientists and People must unite all over the world to create a new , sustainable, eco-based and Direct -democratic society !
We all need to resolve the global problems we are facing today, and the only way is as organize some kind of direct or at least participatory democracy.

We entered in such a period in which it is not possible to continue the Oligarchy and Totalitarian Utopias, but it is needed to ruin them for the better and our common future.
And I hope that the USA and Barrack Obama will help all students, scientists and people to create a new freer world!

Posted by Stefan Grigorov December 17, 08 03:28 PM
612.

So what do u do when the state doesn't give justice?? Remember pple, that the state is obligated to work for you. When pple don't get justice, they give justice.
Violence or no, that's for the protestor to choose, a 15 year old boy was shot, and that's a fact. And we are obligated not to let this happen again. We are obligated to act if we want a better state, a better life.
And voting isn't working if all things are acting of the behalf of the state. We want democracy, but not on papers and words of a politician. We want democracy as democrasy should work, for all of us!!!

Posted by ilier December 17, 08 03:29 PM
613.

I am a Greek-Australian living permanently in Athens. More student protests are scheduled to take place on December 18 throughout Greece. The two largest Greek unions have also planned to stage demonstrations on December 19. Although an earlier post giving some insight into how the Greek "riot" culture evolved over the past decades, especially during the 1967-74 junta, does offer some explanations, I believe that the underlying reasons leading to the backlash of the Greek youth, which turned into extreme violence, are more complex. The unfortunate killing of the 16-year old student was merely the fuel that sparked the riots. Adverse social conditions, a cumbersome and corrupt state, poor public services and high unemployment are some of the factors that caused the eruption. But the most important factor, in my opinion, was a complete lack of hope for not only the young people, but the middle class. Just mix all those in a pot with a lid and there you have it. The key, of course, is that all these factors are not only present in the Greek society. I think we should not kid ourselves, the writing is on the wall. What happened here was just a preview of what the future has in store for every society to a larger or lesser extent.
Thanks

Posted by christos December 17, 08 03:36 PM
614.

congratulations, greece. this is your may 1968.

Posted by a December 17, 08 03:42 PM
615.

Communism? Boy, what idiots you people are. Communism really has a good record in the last half of the 20th century, doesn't it! As I recall, the Soviet Union, East Germany, Cuba, and China were all great bastions of civil rights and tolerance weren't they. If communism is so great, where is the rush to become communist in the world. China, with it's trend toward capitalism and private property while retaining its one party rule would be more accurately called a fascist state. There are only 2 countries who practice it today, North Korea and Cuba. I doubt any of you "communists" would seriously want to live there. Just being on this blog would likely get you jailed or shot in North Korea or Cuba. As for Che Gueverra, I remember years ago seeing a young American at a resort in the Carrribean wearing a shirt with his picture on it. I asked him why and he said he thought Che was a great man. I pointed out that his presense at one of the nicest resorts on the island would be enough for Che to have him shot. I would no more wear a shirt with Che on it than I would a shirt with the picture of Stalin, Mao, Hitler, or Mussolini. Get a real education. Put down you books on Marx and read Adam Smith. If you insist on concentrating on Marx, you better learn to say, "You want fries with that?"

Raymond

Posted by Raymond December 17, 08 03:42 PM
616.

" wise up, go to school, be responsible individuals in order to get a job"
How do You define "wisedom" and "responsibility"?
Have You considered that finding a job is the means and not an end in itself?
Do You realise that Youth is spiritually and educationally "rapped" every single day?
Do You realise that most of the people around You are literate but spiritually iliterate?
And these kids; they come to contest that, they come to oppose social and ethical degradation, they claim their rights and their shares in the world they live in. They are disgusted of political scandals, they are fed up with promises, they are fed up of being dictated corrupted values and practises...
And yes, in their own young and yet "immature" minds they want to re-invent values, institutions and actual policies in the state they live in.
They want to avoid becoming what you claim as right. A weak minded individual whose only aspiration is getting a 24/7 routine job.
In the country we live in, getting a job doesn't even pay your monthly expenses, it doesn't guarantee given values and modern state social provisions.
In the country we live in some people decided to go on strike and not collect your garbage for more than two weeks; did you oppose their action?
In the country we live in some people decided to start a 2week of every day programmed blackouts, with simple people and not the government officials being affected in the near end.
In the country we live in other people, another day people decided not to operate the metro and cause traffic tangle all over athens; why was their social reaction more justified than that of the Youth?
They also moved to "violate" your everyday business peace, they also insulted your right to given everyday goods and practises.Did you advise them to go back to their jobs, the jobs that you, me and the rest of Greek citizens pay -through increased taxation- to do?


Posted by M. December 17, 08 03:43 PM
617.

Someone wondered and accused the rioters..." Why do they rebel since i see many ppl there with firm jeans and clothes etc...theymust be spoiled etc"...So ignorant sleeper...What do u mean??? That the ppl who have achieved a decent level life condition and are able to afford a pair of for example nike trousers have to put up with every burden their governement and control centers put on their shoulders? They have to keep on sleeping like u and so many others?? Is just that what you want from your life?? To be able to buy a decent pair of shoes?? That makes u content?? Or the fact that u are wealthier from other ppl doesnt allow u to protest!!?? These ppl protest for all the world! There are much more important and deeper meanings in life than wearing a firmand for these things these ppl riot!!! AWAKE at last!!!!!

Posted by Chris G December 17, 08 03:45 PM
618.

Disgusting. This is no way to protest, and all of those idiotic hooligans should be arrested. Trashing the city, looting and spray painting statues of ancient visionaries is hooliganism and hooliganism only. Absolutely disgusting. I am Greek and I am embarassed and disgusted.

Posted by ERIC ALEXANDRAKIS December 17, 08 03:46 PM
619.

I respect all comments.

But in order to make any comments about the Greek Riots
we should know the exact situation.

In Greece there is a huge political and economical corraption.
Education is expensive and NOOO!!!-HUMAN-FRIENDLY!!.
Public health is a nightmare.
Meritocracy is a joke. Nepotism and political acquaintances rule the last years.

The greek youth is like a clear water that comes from the mountains.

But we, their parents, poison this clear water. We as parents slowly slowly destroy the future of our children. High values, ideals, respect are missing!!!

Spyros Kritikos

Posted by Spyros Kritikos December 17, 08 03:47 PM
620.

These anarchists are not fighting for anything. They are destroying so they can destroy. The officer that shot, whether by accident or not) is in jail. What more do they want? What did those shops do? What did those innocent peoples cars do? NOT A THING!
The police here did a great job stopping the anarchists at the RNC, and gladly the anarchists didn't kill anyone like they were planning too.

Posted by Matt December 17, 08 03:59 PM
621.

RIOTS??? HAHAHA NOTHING BUT PUPPETS!!!! THOSE GREEKS ARE SUCH AN IDIOTS!!! JUST FOOLS!!! DESTROYING THE CITY?? WTF!!!! YOU BETTER DO SOMETHING TO THE RESPONSIBLES... NOT TO ALL... SUCKERS!!! ANARCHISM IS DEATH!!!!! HEIL IMPERIAL WORLD!!!! HEIL THE NEW WORLD ORDER!!!

Posted by KARLZ December 17, 08 04:03 PM
622.

ti kavete elinas; Selete ton polemo; isos selete na katastrepste thn Ellada; sa exete krisis me poli asximes sinepies.

Posted by kot December 17, 08 04:07 PM
623.

#572 said: "Think about your ansestors that watched as men killed each other in arenas for fun. Wow how short sighted you guys are."

Actually those were the Romans...

Posted by Thanos December 17, 08 04:20 PM
624.

Reading so many comments and different ideas is trully interesting cause this is no place for "wise" people to reply to personal opinions but instead...read them and try to understand them. True...you have to know what's going on in order to express an opinion that's not about what you generally feel and think about cops,greeks,youth or whatever but again its your RIGHT to write whatever you wish and in the way you want to...cause its your RIGHT! Anyone thought that sometimes this is just a word and not a fact?Anyone thought that always people had to fight for their RIGHTS?So silly and yet so true!And it happens...again and again again...and it will

Posted by Mike Svolos December 17, 08 04:29 PM
625.

The memory of Alexandros Grigoropoulos has been made a mockery of. The Greek people should be embarrassed by the ongoing events - as I am (I was born and lived in Latin America, and moved to Greece. Served in the army there). Whilst I don't condone his killing, I do not know the kid at all (some say he was a junkie, some say he was a saint), nor do I know the circumstances under which he was killed (some say he was a threat, some say he was not). Nevertheless, a 15-year old with a weapon (as is alleged) and with ill-intent, is as dangerous as any individual. In any case, no violent act can justify additional violence - the need to retaliate is mere vengeance rather than justice.

Our forefathers (Kolokotronis, Faireos, Metaxas, Tsolakoglou) worked, fought and bled hard, to gain freedom and set a fair system of justice in place, to avoid falling into a state of anarchy. To avoid a state in which the people take on the role of vigilantes and take justice into their own hands. We have a contract as citizens to let due process take place, and justice be handed out (hopefully) impartially. Now from my understanding, violence broke out within hours of the incident – when was due process given an opportunity to take place?

These are not protesters. They are not freedom fighters. What do they know of fighting or war? There is no glory in such endeavours just pain and suffering. It’s simply a rowdy opportunistic crowd. I do believe in the right to demonstrate and protest – peacefully as was done in the Greek consulate in Germany. Nonetheless, most of these people are lazy, and blame their personal failures on conspiracy theories.

Honestly, what are people complaining about? Is life in Greece that bad? Greeks complain of Greece becoming a dangerous place. Of Greece being a place where democracy does not exist. Do Greeks have any idea of what is life like in other countries? Take Cuba, China, Communist Russia, Brazil. Heck, we don’t even have to look so far, just back in time. Take Greece under the Xounta occupation. Greece under German occupation. Greece under Turk occupation. I don’t think any man or woman, who lived under the Xounta and fought the Germans, would say there is no freedom in Greece today. People nowadays have no concept of what the lack of freedom truly is, merely because we have too much of it. And what are all the students complaining about? They haven’t even begun to work. They don’t pay taxes. They get their education from the state. They take their time in completing their bachelor degrees (up to 8-10 years in some cases – and that is not med school). A fair portion of them spend most their nights in Psirri and Thisio. So what is being robbed from them?

Yes, the world economies are messed up. Yes, life in Greece might be a hardship financially for some. But who is to blame? US – the Greek people. Not the government, not the police. Nobody seemed to complain when the EU economic packages from the 80s were spread amongst the population, and spent at the bouzoukia rather than being invested to improve infrastructures and create industries that would provide Greece with a sustainable economy. What about half the Greek population which was employed by Olympic Airways in its heyday - just punching their card and getting full pay for doing no work. What about all the people trying to get into state (dimosio) jobs? Just looking to draw a nice regular paycheck with a minimum input of work (from 9am to 2pm)? People are basically trying to kavatsosi (I don’t know how to translate that expression – kind of means too look after themselves, without caring about the others) themselves.

Indeed we probably don’t live in a democracy. We live in a meritocracy (or we should). People earn (usually) what they merit. But rather than working to create a better future, people sit back and complain expecting free handouts from the government. That’s not going to cut it. As the saying goes, it is easier to destroy than to create. We have all been witness to that the past few weeks. No kind of revolution will change things for the better – it will all be a step backwards. We need to work together, proactively and constructively.

Posted by abe December 17, 08 04:30 PM
626.

Greeks are fighting against the Government, not only against the police. They are fighting because a policeman murdered a boy with no reason AT ALL, and at the same time they are fighting because they can' t find a job (26% unemployed!), they don' t get good and free education, they don' t feel safe for the future, they don' t have motives. And someone has to fight against the government whose hobby is stealing our money, dreams and life EVERY SINGLE DAY. Oh, and stop mourning about the destroyed shops and cars. I hope your children' s life is more important. PS. i am not communist or anarchist, i am just angry.

Posted by GreekGirl21 December 17, 08 04:33 PM
627.

There is a possibility for peaceful protest. Yet, there was nothing peaceful in the streets of Athens during the protests. Athens looked like a war zone. Shop windows and supermarkets were vandalized, looted and then burnt. Many cars were burnt or turned upside down. The city smelled of petrol and smoke.

There were very few people in the street. I am sure Athenians feared their lives and preferred to stay at home. It was unacceptable and criminal. The police were unable to do anything. I believe they were ordered to stand and not react. They looked helpless.

This article may explain what is going on
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/11/opinion/edkalyvas.php

Posted by Melissa December 17, 08 04:33 PM
628.

For all those Americans who keep saying that there is no resistance in this country , you are greatly mistaken. Did you not hear of the protests during the DNC and the RNC. The FBI led undercover operations before the RNC and did mass arrests of protestors without charging them with anything. There is anti-authoritarian resistance in the U.S., and the corporate media doesn't let you know anything about it. If you are in any major city within the U.S., there is an infoshop there waiting for you to get involved. Do your own research, connect locally, and stop complaining that all Americans are sheep. :gasp: There are anarchists all over the U.S. :gasp:. Even in the midwest!

Posted by Emma December 17, 08 04:35 PM
629.

So what do u do when the state doesn't give justice?? Remember pple, that the state is obligated to work for you. When pple don't get justice, they give justice.
Violence or no, that's for the protestor to choose, a 15 year old boy was shot, and that's a fact. And we are obligated not to let this happen again. We are obligated to act if we want a better state, a better life.
And voting isn't working if all things are acting of the behalf of the state. We want democracy, but not on papers and words of a politician. We want democracy as democrasy should work, for all of us!!!

Posted by ilier December 17, 08 04:37 PM
630.

Av Theloun oi neoi va katastrefoun tnv poli, as arxisoun me ta dika tous spitia kai autokinita! / If the youth want to destroy the city, they should start with their own houses and cars.

Posted by Evas Filos December 17, 08 04:39 PM
631.

to tom hanks :

you might have family in greece my friend ..but i guess you live in a lot better conditions than the people who protest here in greece. (thats why u wrote "I have been to Athens and would not wish living in that city on my worst enemy").
please dont use the word "terrorists" (a word invented by your government just to violate
all constitutional rights of all american citizens) for the people who protest against corrupted politicians here in greece.
speak for yourself only, when u call baghdad and pakistan people as barbarians and uncivilised... and at the same time you asked ... if we have heard of GHANDI???
( GHANDI was born in Porbandar,india- that's a country next to pakistan).
please have in mind that usa brought civilasation to baghdad...wrapped in bombs!!!
put your shit together ... and next time dont call people ignorant.

the ignorant is you that you dont know the basics:

the last 30 years in greece we live in the condition of "frugality" (litotita... ask your greek relatives)... when this condition will ends???

the invenstors who will bolster the economy they are doing "dirty bussiness" under the table with the politicians!!!

most of the politicians here are corrupted , but never no one ended up in jail.
(i guess thats the true meaning of ... "justice is blind"... or maybe even the judges are corrupted too???)
justice has wide open eyes only for the citizens...

and not to forget to talk about living conditions here , health, education ,unemployment and poverty for many greeks.

the irony is that they (politicians) say that this picture give the country a bad name,
while at the same time they forgot about their corruption!!!
and they have the nerve to speak about democracy and justice...what a hypocrisy!!!

i dont say violence is the solution , but it is a justified reaction... to all that shit we must "digest" on daily basis.

and you better let pigs fly out of your butt , than talk !!!


Posted by fumanchu December 17, 08 04:39 PM
632.

Solidarity with the protestors from the UK! Support the Greek Uprising!

Posted by Pyotor Kropotkin December 17, 08 04:46 PM
633.

The fact that people believe Obama is some great savior is astounding to me. Look at his cabinet selections for crying out loud! It's nothing but a rehashed Clinton/Bush regime.

The guy voted for the bailouts and now he's also backing down from what he promised to do.

Silly Americans to believe any real change will come from the top. Any change that comes will come from us and us alone.

Posted by Brian December 17, 08 04:46 PM
634.

Matt - 620 - Anarchists planning to kill at the RNC? Are you out of your mind? What kind of misinformation are you trying to spread? Anyone reading this comment from the U.S., go do your own research now on the RNC 8. It is one of many instances where the Patriot Act is being used to arrest anti-authoritarian activists, and charging them with Conspiracy to Commit Riot in Furtherance of Terrorism. Here is their website: http://rnc8.org/

Don't trust the information you hear from one source. Do you own research.

Posted by Emma December 17, 08 04:47 PM
635.

Ones own conscience and awareness alters as the time goes by and one gets wiser.
The 1st conscience is caring about yourself, developing ones own identity.
The 2nd conscience is caring about the people closest to you, developing a family identity.
The 3rd conscience is caring about your country, developing a national identity.
The 4rth conscience is caring about our planet and everything on it, developing a feeling of brotherhood transcending all races and religions.
The 5th conscience, developing a cosmic awareness.
One could argue that in order to resolve a conflict at any level with peaceful means one requires the development of concience at a higher level.

Posted by sydlending December 17, 08 04:49 PM
636.

This discussion was intended to be about Greece and the riots not America and its hippocratical so called democracy

Posted by A reader from kuwait December 17, 08 04:50 PM
637.

529.@491... Go be a f'n Greek you pinko wuss.

Posted by Proudly American December 17, 08 09:48 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

529, You do not speak for all Americans...far from it! I'm an American in Ohio.
You would think your irrational belief that standing for Freedom and being a "Patriot" includes hating "hippies" or protestors would have smacked you in the face by now when considering the BOSTON TEA PARTY! But your small mind fails to comprehend how those Boston Tea Party members (obviously TRUE American patriots were viewed by British loyalists (also "Americans" at that time!) They were treasonous! Your failure to comprehend the intangible fabric that keeps private citizens free of tyranny includes the right to speak out and protest against the your government.

The Greeks are not cowed or scared of their government, and are acting out...what did YOU do #529 when American police took legally registered guns from survivors of New Orleans? You know, ignoring the right to bear arms and all that? You just turned your head and blathered on about..."pinkos"?

I don't know how old you are, but you have a lot of learning to accomplish.

Power to the Greek people!

Posted by Destardi December 17, 08 04:53 PM
638.

Yes heil the new world order for more dead people in the streets from starvation this time.. A few to eat caviar and the rest each other.. They seems like puppets to you KARLZ but soon this puppets will come to live and then you'll find out that you cannot hide behind your ignorance. All imperials destroyed by the people you call puppets. Anarchist, students, and youths are the most sensitive in political changes of the population in every country and governments it's better to listen to there proposals otherwise they will find them at the opposite side of the street and riots will be allover that's what happen here in Greece that is probably what will happen everywhere if this New world order of yours continues... Think about it aboutit..ofofmperial world contines

Posted by Pantelis December 17, 08 04:57 PM
639.

SONUNA KADAR SAVASIN...AFERIN...

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 04:57 PM
640.

Great pics, some really nice comments, some realy stupid and too much anger... Emotions don't make people smarter.... the problem in Greece is huge...
You can not solve or even think of solving them by saying it's good or bad. The problem is economical, social, cultural, political, democratical etc... and there is very few people that can intellectually handle the whole problem by themselves + rationally... not me for sure. So... many comments and lot of energy spent for writing them... What beautiful things could have been created with it, hein?

Posted by OM December 17, 08 04:57 PM
641.

From BBC:
"Police issued a statement after the shooting, saying a patrol car with two officers inside was attacked by about 30 youths throwing stones.
They were attacked again and responded, with one firing a stun grenade and the other shooting and fatally wounding the boy, AP quoted the statement as saying. "

It's regrettable that he died, but what did he expect, a friendly wave? Violence begets violence. What would it be saying if he wasn't shot? It's ok anarchists, you're free to attack the police because it's wrong for them to attack back.

Posted by Tim December 17, 08 05:04 PM
642.

I see many Americans criticizing, to them, who the f*ck do you think you are? you think you can judge everyone? f*ck you. You have no idea of the conditions or culture of a different place. Why has this become a political discussion about america? This is not about america, but about GREECE and what happened a week ago. If you want to talk about america then go somewhere else.

Posted by John December 17, 08 05:04 PM
643.

A riot is not a revolution. A child being shot does not a martyr make. I am in no way justifying the actions of the police officer that shot the child, but I can not support the idea that the child was a noble blameless victim either. The reaction was not indicative of the action taken by the child, but that does not warrant aimless violence. Say what you will about "fighting the government" or fighting for the people, but firebombing cars and buildings and police officers id in no way an action to further any goal for the people. Are police automatically evil simply because of their profession? Should the passive protesters be vilified for the action of the masked anarchists? Do the actions and idiotic comments presented here give credence to them simply for existing? peopleshould see this for what it was: a mistake. If ones aim is to better ones position the violence must either wipe out the opposition or the peaceful parties must come to some terms for cooperation and coexistance. Any alternate outcome means you have failed. If that was not your goal then you really are nothing other than an anarchist, and before you start proclaiming you ARE an anarchist let me pose to you this one question: Without a system of laws to stand behind what would stop someone bigger and stronger than you to come and take what you have, be it belongings or your life? Anarchist: a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing any other system of order in the place of that destroyed.

Posted by Jim December 17, 08 05:05 PM
644.

freedom and peace...

Posted by Paolo Papa December 17, 08 05:16 PM
645.

ces derniers temps, en grêce, on a put voir, à l'abris des touristes et des regards indiscrets de jeunes gens bruler les métropoles. Il semblerait qu'il se passe queque chose.
Ah si j'avais pu, j'aurai été en grêce voir ces sauvages encagoulés.

Posted by Maël December 17, 08 05:19 PM
646.
Posted by sandra December 17, 08 05:23 PM
647.

the pen is always mightier than the sword, there are no reasons to cause all these vandalisms and destructions. its true that breaking things down will make room the new things, but this way of taking things down is not a productive way of rebuilding for the future. i send my condolences for the boy who died, but i'm sure he doesnt want more people to die... so start with the peace talks. and start learning how to negotiate. people who can't use their brains- resort to violence. that is what i've learned thought my life...

Posted by KrisRich Ong December 17, 08 05:25 PM
648.

In response to the # 618 -

(In Greece there is a huge political and economical corraption.
Education is expensive and NOOO!!!-HUMAN-FRIENDLY!!.
Public health is a nightmare.
Meritocracy is a joke. Nepotism and political acquaintances rule the last years.

The greek youth is like a clear water that comes from the mountains.

But we, their parents, poison this clear water. We as parents slowly slowly destroy the future of our children. High values, ideals, respect are missing!!!

Spyros Kritikos)

Dear Spyros: just susbstitute a name of any other country in our democratic world for Greece.
Lets look at USA and Russia: two different societies with different traditions. Still, your list is perfectly valid: education expensive, public health a nightmare, meritocracy and nepotism rule.
This is a Global problem. Greeks and Russians escape to USA because it's a little better in details.
But it's the same in essence.
People are greedy, selfish, and - most important - not learning from history of the humanity and from their own troubles. It's been this way for thousands years.
Now we've dirtied our house and our souls to the extent when the situation has become self-igniting.

You would ask: what to do?

There are many things: the main is education and self-education and looking into yourself and analyzing your own troubles, and stop duping yourself with cheap entertainment and consumerism.

BTW, here in US many people are crazy about brands of clothing, cars and other objects.
But in Greece it's much much more. You won't be accepted anywhere in "wrong" clothes.
Of course, I am not for going back to a toga and chiton, but... this consumerist obsession EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD gets me scared.
I like technology gadgets and I like nicely dressed people.
But the trend is toward expressing your individuality this way and sneering at "simple souls".
Therefore, a life becomes as cheap as a dress, and a dress as expensive as a life.

I can read Greek, and before this forum I've read the Greek news.
Young people are saying that their dreams become broken by the current situation in the country.
Yet, no one explained what are his/her dreams.
Maybe it is to graduate from the Medical or Teacher College and go work on an island?
Maybe it is to stay in the capital or another big city, and buy a nice furniture?

In a democracy we are (comparatively) free to choose what to do with our lives. The only problem that it's almost impossible to define what is freedom. Sometimes we become slaves to our dreams and start crushing someone elses realities. Of course, many times in history violence had caused the situation to change, apparently, for the better.
But for how long and for what price?
Look at the Greek history. Or the Russian history.
It's time to start thinking - and stop the violence.

It won't give us back "high values, ideals, respect". Only another violence.


M.Sapega

Posted by M. Sapega December 17, 08 05:32 PM
649.

Dear Not Greek,

Firstly, there's a flaw in your argument that riots like these don't happen here in the United States: that statement is false. Or have you conveniently forgotten the Rodney King riots and the looting/rioting in New Orleans after the federal government's failure to respond to the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in a timely and satisfactory manner. Just because it hasn't happened to you or near you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all. You define the American stereotype by living your life in a protective little bubble, believing that things like this only happen to other people, inother countries with names you've never heard of.

Secondly, the only reason things like this don't happen more often here in the U.S. is because the American people are sadly, depressingly complacent. It has nothing to do with us being more civil. It's because we, as a nation, are apathetic.

Thirdly, these riots aren't just about the boy who was killed. They're a backlash against corruption, a failed education system, and a collapsing government. The shooting was just, as they say, the straw that broke the camel's back. Not that I expect you to know that, since the average American can't be bothered to actually keep current on world news.

In short, please stop leaving comments like the one you left to this story in places where people from other countries can see them. You're making those of us who aren't stereotypical, ignorant Americans look bad.

Thanks,
An American

Posted by An American December 17, 08 05:37 PM
650.

Darkness of humanity is around the corner..........
and there is no way out.

Posted by Dimitri December 17, 08 05:38 PM
651.

Peaceful protest and voting never solves anything.

Social revolution throughout the world! (A)

Posted by Maria December 17, 08 05:41 PM
652.

It's funny how half of us Americans seem to have forgotten about the LA riots not even 20 years ago. Violence isn't ever truly justified but it's sure got the media's attention

Posted by Dylan December 17, 08 05:43 PM
653.

Brazil is with you guys, men and women!

Don't stop until anything that deserves to be buried and broken stands still.
The riots may be violent some times? As the police, some times... as the control all times! ... so, it's quit! Fair! To rebel itself is just!

Don't like protests? Go kill people or continue to enslave then with this sick and idiot system (idiot in it's strict sense: the private man, in oposition of the public man, the comom man), until we get you!

Force, focus, calm, patience, wisdom, strength and guts for you all dear mates!

Posted by Leonardo de Abreu Voigt December 17, 08 05:44 PM
654.
Posted by mifu chian December 17, 08 05:51 PM
655.

This is the final outcome of a series of populist governments in Greece – socialist or conservatives. Corrupted state, ineffective police, and spoiled youth. Ministers doing business with monks and gangs of mobsters with cudgels and petrol bombs terrorizing people in the streets and in universities, which have, in Greece, the universal exclusivity of giving asylum to rioting and terrorizing gangs. Greek educational system is rotten, the most Greek students don’t even deserve their high school degree and they are, besides, accepted to dubious state higher education faculties with lowest standards. In many of those faculties, those students lock the professors and the personnel out of the buildings for some months every year, some of them partying and rioting inside, and finally they pass the exams without attending any lesson! This is another Greek miracle! The faculty buildings are dilapidated due to lack of funds and regular vandalism. While Greek students consider it as obvious to “study” and live on their parents’ income indefinitely… The most cherished dream of every “educated” (in the way described) youth in this country is to become a… civil servant. This is in brief the background. Now that economy shrinks, and their parents income is at stake, they shout and vandalize because they want the state to pay them somehow in order to earn a living without doing anything. This sounds absurd for a European, or an American, but believe me this is the case. So, be skeptical before you sympathize with them. The killing of the 16 years old lad was only the pretext for the otherwise expected riots.

There is also misinformation about what happened in Greece. In Patras, the 3rd bigger city in Greece, there was finally a crackdown on the so called “anarchists” not by police, but by thousands of citizens that gathered and marched against them. The same happened also in other big Greek cities. This played a crucial role in subduing the riots of those bunches in the country. The other thing is that in a typical European country, the police would have swept those rioters from the streets in half an hour. But in Greece the police was ordered by a staggering administration not to actively intervene. If there is not a strong and decided government in Greece, in the near future, to stop the multifaceted decline, then it’s sure that there will be hard times for Greeks.

Posted by nolte December 17, 08 05:52 PM
656.

God money Ill do anything for you.
God money just tell me what you want me to.
God money nail me up against the wall.
God money dont want everything he wants it all.

No you cant take it
No you cant take it
No you cant take that away from me

Head like a hole.
Black as your soul.
Id rather die than give you control.

Bow down before the one you serve.
Youre going to get what you deserve.
Bow down before the one you serve.
Youre going to get what you deserve.

God moneys not looking for the cure.
God moneys not concerned with the sick among the pure.
God money lets go dancing on the backs of the bruised.
God moneys not one to choose
No you cant take it
No you cant take it
No you cant take that away from me

You know who you are.


trent reznor n.i.n

Posted by fumanchu December 17, 08 05:56 PM
657.

In #29 "Just do it"

Posted by karl December 17, 08 05:59 PM
658.

f*ck the police...burn the power

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 06:00 PM
659.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!!!!

Posted by An Architect! December 17, 08 06:01 PM
660.

Its funny how many of you americans are so quick to forget stuff like the Los Angeles riots, and act like nothing like this could happen in the US.

Posted by everjeff December 17, 08 06:06 PM
661.

where can i find a camera that takes pictures like that

Posted by steven basler December 17, 08 06:07 PM
662.

(642) jim, that's poor rhetoric.
no one deserves to die this way, period.

LET ANARCHY RULE

Posted by oli December 17, 08 06:14 PM
663.

I am sure what is happening in Greece and Athens has been festering for a generation. Look at those who are fighting the police and establishment in Greece. The cities have become more populated and the Socialist Government is just that. Socialist. What happened to the Democratic Republic in Greece. Greeks should not blame the United States or George Bush. That is the typical Socialist mentality in Greece and the liberals in the United States.

Such demonstrations where violence occurs and where property is destroyed goes to the deep root of a State in chaos without representing the will of the people.

Greece's entry in to the European Market may have seemed like a good idea, but what is being done with that added wealth. Is it going back to the communities, the towns and villages? Probably not.

Posted by Alex Mavradis December 17, 08 06:17 PM
664.

How many mistakes should happen, so that we understand that a system of police terrorism and enforced "order" is completely unhuman? How many lives should be destroyed before your counters say "enough is enough"?
To count only the recent lives destroyed by policemen:
*Augoustinos Dimitriou, Cypriot student beaten without even been asked for his id - policemen didn't go to jail, one of them got a promotion
*Refat Tafili, Albanian refugee beaten his organs failed after, and now lives a partial life.
*Zelilof against Greece case in human rights court... beaten brutally without reason.

And these are examples just in the past 5 years... You think that these would care if someone invested in their slavery? Can you look at them in the eyes and talk about mistakes? How many mistakes?

Posted by ... December 17, 08 06:26 PM
665.

What a mess. This is what happens when one side
is too aggressive. Here is another article.

http://www.ntopics.com/story.php?title=boys-funeral-follows-greek-riots

thanks from tony

Posted by ntopics December 17, 08 06:28 PM
666.

To fumanchu
Well said!! When we all learn to stand on our hind legs and seperate corporatism from socialism we'll have a chance. Unfortunately that day seems a long way off.

Love and best wishes from Canada

Posted by Canuck December 17, 08 06:32 PM
667.

What I love most is the comments about the protesters' clothing. Just because you guys thought that in Greece people would be dressed in rugs doesn't give you the right to blame us for it. We are normal people, just like you are, and 99% of the people protesting are regular people with education and/or jobs who are tired of being victims. The minority which attacks private property are in fact hooligangs and undercover cops. Their purpose is to focus public attention on something other than Greece's real problems and the assassination of an innocent boy. And unofrtunately it seems that they're not doing such a bad work... Alexis was a normal teenager, doing the life of a 15 year old teenager. He was no anarchist and he never attacked the any cops the night of his murder. Most of the people think he threw a firebomb, that's total BS disproved by literally every eye witness and video footage. He was a normal boy going out on a Saturday night, in a district of Athens with very active night life. It could have been your son, it could have been me. This incident makes no sense, no reasonable person can understand how Greek police can act so irresponsibly and be so poorly trained. What's most disturbing in this story is that the murderer is still trying to convince that he did the right thing, not once did he apologise or show regret. He's trying to belittle a 15 year old boy, saying that he was a son of a rich family who was "out of line" because he would go watch water polo games of panathinaikos (the Athens team) and hang out at Exarcheia (a very busy district with many young people, bars and restaurants). He even lied about the boy, saying that he was kicked out of his school. The next the boy's private school sent an official note to the government saying that it was his mother's choice to put Alexis to a different school, falsifying every word of the murderer. It's really very disturbing to grasp... The guy is trying to belittle the child he murdered in order to justify his action of disobeying police orders, provoking a verbal dispute with teenagers who were minding their business, shooting 3 times in a densely inhabited downtown district, and assassinating a 15 year old child. Him and his scum lawyer are trying to convince us that we should actually apologise to the murderer cop and thank him for saving Greece and the world from a terrorist like Alexis. Right now that I think about this I'm being driven crazy and I'm getting feelings of rage, hate and dispair, I hate my country and the hypocritical world we live in.

Alexis, rest in peace knowing that those who matter know the truth.
We will never forget you.

Posted by Athinaios December 17, 08 06:33 PM
668.

Once again Greece is the capital of the Western world!

Posted by Hooray! December 17, 08 06:45 PM
669.

Skaste gamo to mouni pou sas petage....
ante breite kamia douleia na perasete tin ora sas kai meta paraponethite.

Posted by nikos December 17, 08 06:46 PM
670.

As an American, I would like to point out once more that the kids posting ignorant, hateful comments do not represent the majority; or at least I'd like to hope not.

As per my opinion, my general distrust toward all governmental bodies leads me to suspect the people starting those fires may have, in fact, been employed by the government. What better way to spurn support of a counter-government movement than to destroy the world's opinion of said movement?
When we see pictures like these, we no longer care about their ideas. All we care about is the fact that they're supposedly being destructive. I believe each night of "rioting" began with a peaceful demonstration, only to be disrupted by those in the black masks you see pictured. These acts of violence, allegedly performed by students and youths, will give an already abusive government free reign to pass any tyrannical legislation it sees fit to. See: US Patriot Act.

Search the internet for "government sponsored terrorism" and "false flag operations."

And for all my fellow Americans who seem to think that because our government has a new face, we're on the verge of change: you're all very misinformed. Nothing will change, except the fact that half of America is convinced they've won something, and will spend the next four years praising our government for whatever minor change they'll make to some irrelevant program, which will be sold as major reforms of our way of life, whilst turning a blind eye to all the evil and corruption in Washington, as our dollar is deliberately destroyed and the empire systematically brought to the ground. There are bigger powers at work here. But what a historic (and distracting!) night it was.

But to the peaceful freedom fighters having their plight belittled and their right to demonstrate revoked: don't ever stop fighting tyranny and don't ever lose hope.

Posted by Matthew December 17, 08 06:47 PM
671.

To number 543:

Has your high horse prevented you from remembering the Rodney King Riots in Los Angeles? The raw emotions during that riot here in the US pinned rioters against cops and black vs whites (remember the truck driver Reginald Deny?) Granted, the destruction in both cases is tragic, but don't use it as a means to make yourself feel better by pretending that our country is better - it's not. It's only different. Please think.

Posted by Not so "Common Sense" December 17, 08 06:51 PM
672.

to Leonardo de Abreu Voigt
That's why Brasil is not a civilized country
Because all you want is to destroy. You don't know what to build.

To Nolte:
Bravo! Bravo to the citizens of Patra!
Shame to the "intellectuals" who always find the working people guilty of not submitting to a "proletariat".. Ya, those hoods do look destitute - in brains. All they want is to party.
I've seen them "kids" in Boston (my car windows got smashed at the Halloween eve, and the police said: just kids), in Germany, in France and now in Greece.
How much have they helped to poor people in those countries where the main problem is to survive?

Nolte is right: they protest until get a "civil servant" chair. A vicious circle, this violence.

Posted by A Russian from Boston December 17, 08 06:53 PM
673.

People in America riot all the time. At least 4 times a year. NBA Finals, World Series, Super Bowl, and the Stanley Cup Final (especially if the Canucks win). Seriously, if we rioted every time some kid got shot by the cops, and used gas for molotov cocktails, we wouldn't have nearly enough to put in our SUV's. Speaking of which, I'm going to go wash my Hummer now.

Posted by USA #1 Fan (True American) December 17, 08 06:53 PM
674.

OH MY GOD!!! What is the matter with all of you??? How can you state your opinion even though you have never been in Greece? Jim (No. 642) do you believe that this boy deserved to die??? Even if he carried a stone in his hand, even if he used bad language towards the police, has the police the right to kill, to assassinate a 15 year old child? Where is the police that protects the citizens? So, all of you americans, be proud of your country but at the same time be sure that noone likes USA. You are so brainwashed that you cannot distinguish that is true and what is not. You even supported Bush against Iraq and you are so naive to believe that Obama will save your nation! You think that Bin Laden was responsible for the 11/9 and not your government! How fool! Things here (in Greece) are not so well. I support the anarchy because it can become reality in a world without money. The shops were destroyed because people are so angry with Karamanlis that resembles to a bull in a cage! Greeks must wake up and understand that we live in a corrupted place with no serious government. The polititians are pigs that care only about money and we have become their slaves! Let the riot continues! Don't fear the police!

Posted by Blasito Mark December 17, 08 06:59 PM
675.

the plan of the FEW ... is succesfull so far.
the dreams of the citizens of this f*ckin country
(put the name of your country here, tho i put ...greece) are no wider than the 4 walled family coziness...
please god almighty take care of me and my family and let the rest die ...

the "bad(???)" thing is that some people dreams are embrasing everyone , even the selfish above.

i can understand the FEW who get richer against the MANY...that is their bussines ,anyway!
what i can not understand is the apathy and the indifference of the MANY, when their life is being stolen in front of their eyes... how blind are we people ???

ladies and gentlemen of the middle and lower class... you should protest in the streets long time ago for the shake of your children ... a lot before the stones start flying around!!!

right now ... reap what you sow !!!

(and im not talking about violence or anarchy here ... i m talking against apathy and indifference...
power to the people ... lets react/protest peacefully for anything unjustice we experience,
till we get a better/quality living to every human being all around the globe)

----love and wishes back to canada from athens greece----


and to 652 ... are you greek or not ??? or just a fascist ???
-you forgot to talk about the secret police officers / skinheads who are provoking by destroying small
shops ... to lead citizens ...against the protestors ...

-in patra city you mention a few years ago these "citizens" (your kind) killed a teacher who protest (but i guess u forgot to mention)

-and that the some greek anrchists gather money to rebuilt a poor womans shop that got burned.
(it was even on the tv news)

-many greek people (not your kind) work 2-3 jobs per day to make their living (as pizza delivery at nights)

next time use a nickname ... "adolf" is very apropriate

Posted by fumanchu December 17, 08 07:04 PM
676.

1-->Hooligans have no right to destroy private or public property
2-->Many hooligans work for the police,just to turn people to their side
3-->A child died.We still talk about burned property?

P.S.
Comment 572:Use your brain.What you say means that we should reward the policeman for killing that boy.Good job.People like you give America a bad name.

Posted by Kostas--Greece December 17, 08 07:07 PM
677.

The harming of innocent civilians by rioting thugs is no more noble than a cop gunning down an unarmed 15-yr old.

Posted by WoS-Odessa December 17, 08 07:08 PM
678.

After Corea , Vietnam, Iraq and hopefuly NOT Iran have returned to American mothers brothers and children thousands & thousands of their beloved in coffins, they should AT LAST start seeing the nasty way their "democracy" works. This, here in Greece, is the way that our furious anger shows, against a corrupted insensitive government and the wild dogs that guard them. Who will stop them if not the "punks", the "anarcists", the "crazy-still-hopers", the "tramps" and the awakened?
It's still a boiling pot!


Merry..... Policetmas!!!

Posted by Don Jorge December 17, 08 07:12 PM
679.

I don't believe that this has anything to do with some kid getting shot by policemen. No, that was just the catalyst. These people are simply rioting because they want to riot. Now I'm all for protesting, great way to get people listen to you, but lets try not to throw stones, burn down buildings, and assault police men and women, just because they're doing their jobs. That's not right.

Posted by silent scream December 17, 08 07:28 PM
680.

Dear Geoff (No511),
please dont misunderstand me but I would like to inform you that it wasnt Greeks that were killing eachother in arenas, these were the Romans MANY MANY ages ago. You must have confused us because we were wearing the same clothes. We were playing theater and make speeches in our amphitheaters but definitely not killing eachother. Im not trying to say that we are the best because we definitely are not, if you consider that our government has done everything to destroy and steal this country you will understand why Greeks have changed.
Greeks used to be happy, cheerfull and energetic people and now have become like most of the Westerns "depressive". Shouldnt we all do sth about that in order to gain our lives back? There is "action and re-action" which can give sth possitive and there is also "reaction to reaction" which always gives catastrophic results to societies.
So please stop critisizing us for sth we have never done and understand that we re-act to the murder of a 15 years old kid which went out on saturday night with his friends to have fun and not to provoke any fight and never came back home because he was killed by someone who like most of his pals hate youth and was killed second time by the same person and his lawyer who since that night have spoken immoral lies about this kid in order to justify his murder. His lawyer actually stated that "justice will tell whether this kid should be shoot or not"... and many many other statements like the above. Shouldnt then all re-act to this? Should we all re-act to the abuse of lives and Democracy?

Also I would like to inform you that there was only one dead "Alexis Grigoropoulos" the 15 years old kid... I dont know how you thought that 1000s died during the demostrations.... this is a lie. Yes, they destroyed bank branches, burnt cars etc but noone was killed. There are 100s of pictures and videos that depicts that those stupids who burn and break everything to be close friends with the police. The students and the citizens were angry, disgust, and hurt by the murder but it was not them who burn Athens. Athens was burn for a reason... to overcome the murder of innocence!

Thank you for being interested in knowing whats going on in my country. It doesnt matter if we have different opinions. As long as people respect eachother and not offend it doesnt matter if they disagree.

My regards...

Posted by Mayia December 17, 08 07:30 PM
681.

I'm jealous...a wealthy country with people of passion is a rare thing. Funny to read how protective people are of private property when fundamental issues of injustice are being contested. We effectively kill people in the Developing World to sustain our levels of consumption in the West. Smashing up the property of the multi-nationals seems pretty inconsequential by comparison.

Posted by Robert Ashe, New Zealand December 17, 08 07:31 PM
682.

America... you talk too much... bla bla bla bla bla
Greece... just ACTION


Posted by ely December 17, 08 07:47 PM
683.

Viva

Posted by سینا Sina December 17, 08 08:04 PM
684.

I've lived in Greece and I understand just how misguided Greeks generally are. I keep reading about these young malakas rioting over "educational reforms." Do you American Greeks who post on here, who have never been to Greece, know what that means, exactly? It means the Greek government is attempting to prevent barbarians from continually failing classes and resitting them, preventing others who are willing to learn the opportunity to do so! The Greeks were rioting about that three years ago. I know. I was there. I got gassed. So before you Bostonian "Greeks" post about "action" and "eleutheria," maybe you should ask your gradnparents about Greece in 195.

Posted by zorba December 17, 08 08:15 PM
685.

this should be happening anywhere those with power oppress those without. the death of a 15 year old...honestly how could that have been an accident...i think these people are well within their rights. i also apologize on behalf of my rather ignorant "fellow americans" but the people in america just dont understand...they get lost in their ipods and online sex pals. i truly back these people and wish i could stand on the front line with them. this is humanity. defend what is sacred, NO ONE escapes the eyes of justice.

Posted by kevin brady December 17, 08 08:16 PM
686.

I wish my country don,t to be like this.

Posted by khunchay December 17, 08 08:34 PM
687.

"I'm just passionate! Like all us Greeks! "

---Homer Simpson

tzaziki kourabethes gyro mousaka milo karpouzi neraki

Posted by Tzaziki Kourabethes... December 17, 08 08:38 PM
688.

It's sad how many of us Americans have forgotten our way. Let us
not forget that the history of our nation begins with the bloody riots
following the Boston Massacre, when an innocent was killed by an
oppressive British government. We should support the Greeks in
their rebellion against their government's injustices.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

- Thomas Jefferson, Founding Father

Posted by Jim (USA) December 17, 08 08:53 PM
689.

580, I am an American, and I think the mentality that exists which allows for any American to claim that we're "so great" because we are too ignorant, weak and afraid to stand up to our government, even in times where it very well should be necessary, is incredibly unfortunate.

What is so particularly sad about it is that no human beings are as pathetic as their leaders prefer them to be. What about our potential? It is going to waste.

Posted by Kins December 17, 08 09:00 PM
690.

Good job, guys!
The brazilian people are with you!

Congratulations!

Posted by Fabiano December 17, 08 09:09 PM
691.

the policemen are facing due process. they will have their day in court. the riots are unnecessary and just destroy a beautiful culture. yes what happened was bad. yes they will suffer the consequences. it's not helping anybody to burn down stores and set other policemen on fire.

Posted by Will Geralds December 17, 08 09:41 PM
692.

Our lives cost more than damaged shops. It's simple. ___

WAKE UP-RESIST-ΑΝΤΙΣΤΑΘΕΙΤΕ!

Posted by Lola December 17, 08 09:53 PM
693.

Greek workers to support the struggle of the people. When you win a war of the flame will hope to people around the world

Posted by prrk seong soo December 17, 08 09:58 PM
694.

the pictures are amazing

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 09:58 PM
695.

Greek protestors, Malaysians are with you.
I wish that people would stand up to the corruption and lies spread by our goverment through our media! I wish that people would fight for what is right and not just sit down and take it! I am against brutality and violence, but when other peaceful ways aren't taken notice of... What else can you do, for the better of your country and your children's future?

WE LAUGH AT YOU WITH OUR FISTS HIGH AND OUR EYES CRYING...
WE DESTROY THE PRESENT BECAUSE WE BUILD THE FUTURE.
Warcry of the protestors of the 2008 Greek Riots.

http://spiritofjasmine.blogspot.com/

Posted by Sha, my spirit is with you December 17, 08 10:10 PM
696.

greece, thank you for leading the world revolution against world government.

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 10:24 PM
697.

So much conflict... so much HATE.
Where did the thing we once called "LOVE" go?

I just wish they would all stop...

Posted by Aaron December 17, 08 10:25 PM
698.

While I support most any political activism, any of those burning people's cars or looting private businesses are utter scum, and deserve to have their skulls cracked by the riot police

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 10:52 PM
699.

RIGHT ON! Keep fighting on for all of us!

Posted by nick December 17, 08 11:05 PM
700.

Even a dog will not sh*t in its own back yard. Mobs get tired and eventually go home, disorganized and spent. The next thing that will happen is everyone stupid enough to be photographed will eventually be arrested.

Posted by Anonymous December 17, 08 11:30 PM
701.

I am Greek and raised in the true spirit of Democracy. The dearest obligation of the citizen to the country is to defend it from enemies domesti and foreign. This is what is being done in Greece. We are protecting the true spirit of Democracy by fighting the ones that continuously negate the Constitution and the dream to a better life.
I hope that these riots will wake politicians up. I hope that they see its for their own interest to re-shuffle the deck. If they do not, then Democracy will prevail anyway, but without them. Today its windows and cars, tomorrow will be tyrannicide
Socrates said Democracy needs a restless fly to bite her, so she wont fall to slumber. I pray it will only take these 15 year old flies to wake Democracy up or else it will have to be enough blood to wash away the slumber from her eyes. This is what I hold true, this is what I will teach my sons and my daughters as their debt to Democrasy. As their debt to mankind. In Greece, we have learned to bleed to preserve her or restore her. Sadly it always takes blood. Your people has pondered on the democratic benefits of rioting in the past.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

- Thomas Jefferson, Founding Father (thanks for the quote Jim. U really gave me the words to best describe a Greek mental state in English!!)

Some Facts!!
1- Police brutality is a fact in Greece. Never has a police officer got punished for lethal injuries so far!! 2 years ago, 7 policemen, almost budgeoned nearly to death, a Cyprian student,, in front of cameras. They have not been punished so far. Although they have been proven guilty, they have even got promoted!
2- The average mnths pay in Greece is about 650 E. You need 350E to rent a studio!!! (I did not mention bills did I?). Greece is the most expensive country to live in Europe and we get half the Average European salary.
3- For the last 20 years, an political economic scandal errupts every month! NOT 1 politician has EVER gone to jail, thanks to a law, that says that at the time of elections, anypolitical wrongdoing is cancelled.
4- Politician have immunity to penal law. Even if they are caught in the act, the parliament should have to vote to cancel his immunity (that is..his friends in the goverment), so he would go to trial!
5- Police in Greece has used its officers for intigation in protests for decades. Policemen have been seen smashing windows and hurling molotov bombs.
6-

Posted by Panagiotis Iliopoulos December 17, 08 11:38 PM
702.

Down with the banks that loot the people of the world.

Posted by Frank December 17, 08 11:40 PM
703.

Statement:
"this police officer was a criminal and deserves punishment"
Evidence:
"whether the injury was made by an accidental ricochet or deliberate shot remains to be determined"
the officer claims the group of teenagers were throwing "firebombs" at them, and acted in self defense
Refrence: Picture 8 and 9 - Similar activity described by the policemen.
Descision: The teenage punks went too far and the most popular weapon for showing ones opinion is fire.

Posted by Malcolm December 17, 08 11:47 PM
704.

I say burn it all to the f*cking ground. I really wish I was there right now. Why can't people get there lazy asses up and do this in America. I've tried but everyone says, "If it happens we'll do it." Yeah that's good and all but WE'RE the ones that have to start it.


BURN IT TO THE F*CKING GROUND

Posted by Bringing Down Babylon December 17, 08 11:58 PM
705.

POWER TO THE PPL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THATS ALL I CAN SAY \m/

Posted by skouk December 18, 08 12:53 AM
706.

KUDOS 646.
I would like to remind everyone that protest taking place are mostly peaceful and non-violent, it is of course like always a few extremist that resort to violence. But maybe its for the best, after all look how many people are talking about fundamental and crucial issues affecting our times. No one would have notices a few sit it protests or kumbayaing.
Yes the death of this boy was without a doubt a tragedy. but we cannot minimize the real issue. I have read and can sense that the core issue here is one of dissatisfaction with globalization and global consumerism/corporatism, its almost palpable. Nearly all of the "1st world" nations are becoming mass produced commodities themselves. Even the identity of individuals living in these supposed democracy are being marketed stereotypes and images to fit in to and conform to.
and as a result we have a certain culture, this culture in question is one worth rebelling against, what ever its manifestation beit capitalism consumerism fascism or communism, and hopefully this is the spark that will ignite the dismantling of this cruel system of exploitation and distrust(not to mention that the 1st world only has so much because the flat out rob and enslave the "3rd world") that suffers from a chronic lack of compassion and a missing soul.

So this having been said i hope we can see that this is a global issue directly effecting all inhabitants of our beautiful planet, so it is necessary to set aside nationalism and other arbitrary differences that create division and therefore conflict.

also to those so appalled at the riots because the lose of property and other such stuff. you are completely missing the point! this is a reaction against materialism and the rampant worship of stuff and things almost to the point of subservience to your possessions. who the hell cares about all this stuff anymore, life is whats important and people are starting to wake up to this reality.


the real danger is fear and ignorance. One Love.

Posted by s. salvage December 18, 08 12:55 AM
707.

Joel --
If you think that you have democracy or that the founding of the United States keeps you safe from your consume, then you have to keep playing with your dolls or keep fighting with Iraqi people and afghans, and try to keep them away from your territory. Remember that you know democracy :) and all the rest of the world is only to serve you. Oooh what an idiot brainwashed you are.
Try to keep fighting for your rights of consumption, because we fight for the freedom of speech.

Posted by C.K. December 18, 08 01:05 AM
708.

Think before act. Nobody owe anybody. We have to work hard to earn a good living. It is a basic rule applying anywhere in the world world. Amen!

Posted by Christine Beck December 18, 08 01:30 AM
709.

It brakes my heart to see all that happening to my brothers in Greece

Posted by domenica zajac December 18, 08 01:54 AM
710.

Poor Greece! I wish I could help somehow - now, the only thing I can do is to express my warmest regards to the courageous Greeks....

Posted by Ljiljana Vuckovic-Dekic December 18, 08 02:09 AM
711.

They made the headlines alright. But why? To protest against what? A death of an "anarchist", a "vandal"? Like themselves... What did the local store owner did to deserve to demolish his store? What did the car owner did to deserve to get his car burnt?
They just proved the point that they deserve the same fortune as their "beloved" comrade...
Just an evidence of lack of intelligence...

Posted by Asim Ferhatovic December 18, 08 02:09 AM
712.

yes..that's exactly the problem. Some people here are really corrupted. They care more for the shops than a real life and that because they scared of maybe it could be their shop or better someone is ruin the fantastic quite world they are living in front of a TV or a PC or whatever with two letters. Imagine only for one moment that this kid was your son or your brother or your closest friend. Yesterday i was in the place that the kid died. Full of flowers and candles. When you are able to kill an unarmed person and not those that they are really criminals then you are capable for many bad things. And no it's only a cup. There are many having the same beliefs about how they should treat to unarmed persons. Of course i forgot to mention the scandals that nonone (and i mean noone) has gone in jail for those. Big scandals that the Government, big companies, and even priests had been involved. Our money actually had been stolen but noone then shout or saying anything. We might think that this is normal. They should rob us in order to feel well and happy. Then we (majority) have to live with 700 to 1000 euros. And there is more than that...everyone in this country does whatever he likes..so now that some buildings are burning why are we soooooo pissed off???

Posted by GREECE December 18, 08 03:20 AM
713.

Viva La Liberta....

We dont want more government lies , violence from the police ... We need real education with free spirit , openmind people ...

WE WANT TO LIVE... We are FREE.....

Greece riots everywere...
" Someone anarchist from greece"

Posted by A December 18, 08 03:27 AM
714.

It is anarchy, pure and simple; destroying schools,businesses and private property is not a sign of morality.

Posted by Robyn December 18, 08 03:54 AM
715.

great photos!clear and powerfull.solidarity with Greeks!RIOT IS OUR POWER

Posted by karol December 18, 08 03:54 AM
716.

The police played their usual game. After murdering the child, they let the extremists to burn everything for 1-2 days, so that the public opinion start to ask for harder safety measures. This keeps away from the protests a big amount of people and also "excuses" the police to use violence against even the peacefull protest. There are videos of policemen dressed like anarchists broking stores.
Finally the mass media speaks mostly about the damages and everyone forgets the reason, which is the murder of a child.
There was a lot of anger pressed in young people, because the ideally of this society brings tthrows people to the eclipse.

Posted by Platon December 18, 08 04:08 AM
717.

you asked why people in america or other countries cant get their lazy asses up and go out in the streets ... well even here most people they dont do it .
thats cause the corruption got em too.
they re soo used to the sh*t .... they misunderstand the basics...
they think their lives are taking the natural route .... to be poor and sad , to work 24/7 just to pay their debts to the banks and tax ...!!!
thats why they dont react ... cause they think thats the natural way of things.
corruption around steal their dreams for ever ... but its never late to wake up of that lethatrgy.
to 697 aaron :
my friend stop doing drugs!!!
love is just like tango .... it takes two .
and i personally dont remember the last 30 years that governments showed any love to the working class!!!
they just worship god money , simple as that ...
and if you reply ... that we should turn our other cheek to the beater ...
thats what we did ... just the beating was so violent this time ... it woke us up !!!!

Posted by Anonymous December 18, 08 04:17 AM
718.

Violence nad destroying innocent people's property is not the awnser

Posted by Anonymous December 18, 08 04:25 AM
719.

I am a Greek citizen and I feel ashamed! Do you know why? Not because of all this damage caused to our cities. I just consider it as a needed sacrifice in order to remember upper human values, which have been FORGOTTEN for many years, such as democracy, education, justice... I am ashamed because I have not really acted in order to take part in this riot... Shame on me and others like me. So, the least I can do is to support people who act, who make the difference, who resist to the everyday hell we live! Congrats and KEEP RESISTING, someday "they" will understand...

P.S. Although I do not support violence of any kind, I just wonder, would there be any chance of making them get the point, if we did our riot in a peaceful way?? The question is retorical of course, we all (Greeks) know the answer...

Posted by Christina December 18, 08 04:45 AM
720.

To everyone asking why this doesn't happen in the United States, there's a pretty simple answer. A media under a chomsky-esque corporate control (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model) a lack of a public education system and rampant consumerism - not just the act of consumption in which we particpiate, but also the consumerist ideology which is subtly promoted in every major movie, in popular music, and acts as a filter in deciding which belief systems are acceptable in general discourse (e.g. notice how any mention of anything resembling socialism in the united states is categorically frowned upon rejected a priori, without ever being discussed or considered, regardless of its merits) - which placates and distracts America's youth and accustomes everybody to the status quo. If we had anything resembling a real public education system, then maybe we'd be able to compensate for the corporate propoganda and resist our consumerist ideology, but without an education we're defenseless. How are a bunch of idiots supposed to behave any differently when every day they're bombarded with images promoting the status quo? The combination of the media, lack of an education and the fanatical promotion of a consumption society ensures that even if there were a riot, nobody would hear of it, and its social impact will be mitigated (e.g. seatle 1999 of which almost no American I speak to knows of). Oh, and btw, for the record, I was born and raised in the US, so I say this out of firsthand experience.

Thank you Greece for showing us that collective resistance to modern fascism is still possible in today's world and that apathy and indifference have not placated everyone.

Posted by James Hallward December 18, 08 04:53 AM
721.

....I am greek. And I am proud that people did not just sit in front of their boxes watch what was going on. And I am disappointed by so many other compatriots that lose focus and in a moment of crisis like this they are concerned about broken glasses.
I am so far away, I see my country bleeding, I see the scars being left uncured, I hear so many screems and nobody is listening...

Posted by Elina December 18, 08 04:53 AM
722.

This is not the only and the main picture of Greece.
Thousands of students and WORKERS demonstrated , well organised in their unions in blocks last week. Several times in more than 67 cities every day thausands of protesters where demanding for justice, against state and police violence , against E.U. and economic policy of Maastricht etc.
Why none of you knows anything about that?
There is a big wall in the international information. What you learn is what the "big brother" wants to learn.. The anarchists why they keep playing that role??????

Posted by Chistidis V. December 18, 08 04:54 AM
723.

I am greek
All i want to say, without haveing read all 704(now) comments, is that its ONLY because of the student's death that all that has happened. The livining conditions are in general aweful, 20% of the greek civilians are considered "less than poor", while the politicians seem to just try and enjoy their time being government. If that had happened to ANY other country, no one, i think, would get out of their home and burn, and steal, and fight, and protest. But in Greece happened, because we may as have to apologise to the police officer who shot at the boy, as it turns out...

Posted by Anonymous Ano December 18, 08 04:57 AM
724.

Ok, It's been difficult to understand this situation because of the lack of in-depth analysis from the media. But luckily I live about 100 km from the border of Greece (Istanbul) so I know enough Greeks to get some real insider perspective.
From what I understand, generally, distrusting authority exists commonly in Greek society, people don't like the government/police to overstep their boundaries, and civil liberties aren't to be messed with. I've also been told that similar disturbances have happened in the past (though not quite to this scale) and it makes the political atmosphere so toxic for the ruling party that they are voted out next election. Can any Greek folks confirm or deny this analysis? I admittedly know little about modern Greek society, but I am becoming more interested daily.

Also I see many comments where people say "All of you Americans are ". Let me say just say that this is very ignorant, and reeks of nationalism and ethnocentrism. You are choosing only to respond to the stupid comments made by some ignorant Americans and ignoring the rational ones. You show as little understanding for politics and people in America as they have for politics and people in your countries. Stereotyping is always wrong.

Posted by Steelcity December 18, 08 05:17 AM
725.

These rioters are not good people. If they have a complaint against the government then vote! The same mistake was made in Los Angeles over the Rodney King issue. Rodney King was a convicted criminal (robbery) evading arrest and endangering others while trying to escape from police at 100+mph. I think he deserved a beating! During the riots in LA, the businesses and livelihoods of hundreds of innocent people were destroyed by criminals. I think the people of Greece should be proud of this police officer shooting this dangerous, criminal, and misguided young man. The government in Greece and your leadership may not be all good, But come up with a better idea than this!
better idea and be more noble than this.

Posted by Steve Jasper December 18, 08 05:18 AM
726.

Here's my question:

Why is it alright to attempt to burn a policeman to death, yet not alright for a policeman to shoot an assailant to death?

Posted by confused December 18, 08 05:23 AM
727.

It is our goverments social policy (including all goverments I remember) for years now.. that is solely responsible for what happened (and is still happening) here...

When they think that..
.. they can murder students and get away with it..
.. they can "steal" from the poor (via huge and unfair taxes) and give to the rich..
..they can get the best jobs just because they "know the right people" and leave the worthy ones jobless...
..they can mock the public.. by giving 300 euros/month to the elderly.. as a "pension".. and expect them to live on that amount.!. while they spend that amount on a single dinner..
.. they are in the power seats.. just so that they can help out their banker friends..
.. the police is there to protect THEM, and spread fear to the rest....

.. then they will find us in the streets... with stones and molotov coctails.. burning the "state" they created.. and unveiling the true face of what they insist to call.. a "democracy"...


Posted by Maintas Achilles December 18, 08 05:25 AM
728.

The letter of the friends of the fifteen-year-old Alexis, who was killed by a bullet of the special guard, Epaminondas Korkonea, on the 06.12.2008.
The letter was distributed during the funeral of Alexis, to the cemetery.


We want a better world.
HELP US.

We are not terrorists, «koukoyloforoi», «known-unknown».

WE ARE YOUR CHILDREN.
These, known-unknown ....
We dream – don¢t kill our dreams.
We have vigor – don¢t stop our vigor.

REMEMBER.
Once you were also young.
Now you are after money, you only care
for the ¡showcase¢, you are fattened and lost your hair,
YOU FORGOT.

We expected to support us,
We expected to care;
to make us once proud of you.
IN VAIN.

You live false lives, you have lowered your head
you lowered the trousers and
wait for the day you die.
You don¢t imagine, you don¢t love, you don¢t create.
You only buy and sell.

MATERIAL EVERYWHERE
LOVE NOWHERE - TRUTH NOWHERE

Where are the parents?
Where are the artists?

Why not go out:

HELP US

THE CHILDREN

PS: Do not give us more tear gas.
we can cry on our own.

Posted by George December 18, 08 05:34 AM
729.

live

Posted by skarlo December 18, 08 05:34 AM
730.

"Our democracy is being self-destroyed, because it has abused the right to freedom and equity, because it has taught citizens to consider impudence as a right, lawlessness as freedom, audaciousness as equity and anarchy as prosperity".
Isocrates (436 BC-338 BC)

The social, educational, political and economic system in the country have shown no more respect to young people for at least 30 years now than the respect that the young people are now showing to the system. Sad, but true.

Posted by neni December 18, 08 05:36 AM
731.

As Greek leaving in Australia I am shame for what is happening in Greece'. the young protesters over step their authority. I feel sorry for those people loosing their business and to see them destroyd by the young hooligans. Democrasy allows demostrations but only peaceful, Greek citizens please, all fathers and mothers
spend some time with your youngsters be kind to them teach them to respect others. What has hapen to Love,Help and Respect . Parents to busy interested only to flert and show of.. Please ELLINA wake up befor is to late. I am Sorry.

Posted by Peter Argy December 18, 08 05:48 AM
732.

YOUTHS ARE REVOLTING FINALLY IN GREECE. THEY HAVE BURNED YES, THEY ARE ANGRY OOOHHH YES, THEY BROKE THEY FOUGHT THEY SHOUTED AND THEY WILL KEEP DOING SO. YOU WANT TO PROSECUTE THEM FOR THE DAMAGES? DO SO.
B U T
FIRST, PROSECUTE ALL THE POLITICIANS THE PRIESTS AND ALL THOSE THAT HOLD ANY TYPE OF POWER AND HAVE RANSACKED THE WEALTH, THE HOPE AND THE FUTURE OF MY COUNTRY.
WE SAY E N O U G H !

Posted by GREEK WOMAN FROM THESSALONIKI December 18, 08 05:56 AM
733.

To all those fellow true rebels out there: kindly give me your home addresses and car plates so that me and my team can come and burn your house and your car to the ground.
If you are a shop owner give me your shop address too so that we can burn that to the ground too.
I'm glad to have finally come across some people who are smart and ready for action, we can watch your property burn together and feel rebellious.
Come on then, waiting for your addresses, post them here.
Thanks,
A greek anarchist

Posted by Reggina December 18, 08 06:15 AM
734.

I am so sick and tired of all these junkies who like to play it anarchists because it is so cool. Their parents worked hard to provide them with everything and they are just living with their parents money. They rarely go to their university studies and some are students until their middle 30s. Initially, I felt sorry when they said a little boy was killed, but when I read that he was 15, at Exarxhia, I lost any sympathy. I am mad that the police and the government has not been tougher on these alites. They are the same lowlives every year that go on rampage sprees, destroying our properties that we work hard for. There is plenty of work in Greece, as well as free education, healthcare. But everyone wants to be a civil employee or a director. They want to have an easy job and not work hard. For us who work hard, they make fun of and they call us stupid for working until 8pm at the office. These lazy bumps occupied my highschool, as well as university, when I was a student, and prevented us, the 99% majority who wanted to continue our studies. You want to change the world? Go to work! What a nouveau concept. Run for elections. Do not try to force your delusional opinions on us with violence, because we disagree with youA

Posted by Anna December 18, 08 06:16 AM
735.

Anarchism is the everyday life that everyone all around the world have right now ...!! Why ? Because all these governments (few people) just know how to take from you and give you the least expected...in every level..!! They are just few families that keep alive the monarchism and they do nothing but just pass from generation to generation their leadership just because they had the luck and not even the qualifications to be the leaders.!!!
Wake up and just look how low they want their public education to be..!! They want everyone to be and grow stupid with no new and fresh ideas, with creative minds..!!!!
Wake up and just face that only their VIP families around the world have access to VIP treatments...!!

Just open you eyes and protect your chidren ...tell them the truth..show them what is behind that peppuet show..!!

Just be BRAVE and act once like GREEK CHILDREN (ofcourse not the part of demolition) ...don't hide your life behind your "wallets"... !!!

STOP BEING SLAVES OF THEIR PUPPET SHOW..!!!!
STOP THINKING ONLY YOURSLEVES....!!!!

Posted by Nikolas December 18, 08 06:47 AM
736.

Burn it to the Blagovich Ground?

Why not start with your house first?

Fools

Posted by Paul December 18, 08 06:53 AM
737.

those damn statues of revolutionary's and cars and stores must fkn pay! destroy them all vandals, ups i mean protestors!

Posted by milivoj popovic December 18, 08 07:04 AM
738.

This isn't the true image of Greece.
Greece is sun, not bombs and fires...
I hope that all this will stop!

Posted by Aeiforos (Greek Student) December 18, 08 07:12 AM
739.

The problem in Greece is actually huge from the begining of the 19th century when actually Greece was liberised. And the name of the problem "the law was and is not applicable to all the Greek citizens but to some and some times to noone" .The policeman who shot the teenager propably before the episodes would go to jail for six mounths and then he would be out from jail because the court would accept some stupid excuse.When the state wants to apply a law to the community it has to be prepared first to apply the law to itshelf.To the people who represent the state like the policeman, the judges, the politicians. When this happens then the state has all the right to ask for the application of the law to the rest of the community.Then the state has all the right to arrest the people who destroyed the center of the Greek cities and steel the properties of innocent people.But now the protestors have a point because in Greece the law was never apllied to the representatives of the state so they have every right to steel, (ministers are doing the same thing with scandals e.g Real Estate bussiness with the Orthodox Church) destroy, (ministers with their decisions are destroing the enviroment ) burn (ministers let half of the country of Greece in summer of 2007 to be burned) and whatever. So the main problem in Greece remains and it is the wrong application of the law which was actually a political decision.A political decision which favours the economically strong and the people who have power and authority. After all Sokrates the ancient philosopher drunk the poison just because he wanted to prove that the application of a wrong law is better of the application of no law. But the no law society in Greece is or the application to the weeker people is a political decision and now the bill is coming back to all the Greek society.

Posted by human December 18, 08 07:21 AM
740.

Policeman killed a young boy the same way Kronos ate his children.
The first is fact. The second is myth. Both have the same motives. Control of power.... or should it be power of control??
The policeman shouldnt have shot!
Alexandros should have lived more
The demonstration was about wrath and anger against corruption. Corrupted system.. corrupted police, money cannot be found, we live in a world full of commercials that urge us to "buy and buy and buy and live luxurious ever after", but who can affort to "buy and buy and buy and live luxurious ever after" when the average salary reaches 700 euros and an average monthly rent reaches 350 euros???? Why does the police protect only rich and also corrupted politicians, lawers, doctors, celebrities, and doesn't pay attention to its own children???
I am with the anarchists. And please, make it not to be over yet!!!

Posted by Marianna December 18, 08 07:24 AM
741.

Greece is moving to a civil war. Some say it will be separated in 2 or 3 different countries.

Posted by fg December 18, 08 07:25 AM
742.

no dont stop the fight...now is the time to show that we are not fools...
the ones that burn are people from the police...so people focus on the burnings and not the violence that caused the fires...
fires in our hearts...for so long...and others in the government just enjoying the money we pay them...
together we stand divided we fall...

Posted by fabulina December 18, 08 07:36 AM
743.

This is not chaos. These are people living in chaos. As long as it turned us out of our beds ,everything is possible.

Posted by fune December 18, 08 07:37 AM
744.

As long as we will have VOICE....we will SHOUT!!!

Love & Peace to all!!

With happy faces..

We only want to 'LIVE'

Posted by Peny December 18, 08 07:38 AM
745.

TO ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT A SHOP OR A CAR HAS HIGHER VALUE THAN HUMAN'S LIFE!!!!

AND I AM NOT TALKING ONLY FOR ALEXADROS! I AM TALKING FOR OUR LIFE! GREECE IS NOT "TZATZIKI, SOUVLAKI AND OPA". REAL GREECE HAS BEEN MURDERED BY ALL (2!!!) POLITICAL PARTIES HAVE GOVERNED THIS COUNTRY!

I HAVE A QUESTION. WHAT IS MORE VALUABLE? 100 (TOTALLY)SHOPS/BANKS/CARS OR THE NEED TO LIVE IN A HEALTHY COUNTRY IN ALL LEVELS? WE WANT TO TRUST THE STATE, BUT THEY BETRAY US ALL THE TIME... I WANT TO LOVE MY COUNTRY, NOT TO BE AFRAID TO GIVE BIRTH TO A CHILD.
SO, CHILDREN HUNT YOUR DREAMS!!!

WE NEED YOUR PURE SPIRIT IN ORDER TO REBUILD GREECE.
I WANT TO BE PROUD OF MY COUNTRY (AND I AM NOW) THANKS TO YOU!!!

WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU PEOPLE??? WHEN MONEY BECAME YOUR GOD??? WHY YOU CRITICIZE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN WHAT MAKES OUR WORLD WORTHLIVING IN??

Posted by Christina - Athens December 18, 08 07:41 AM
746.

"Any society, that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security, would deserve neither and will lode both" Ben. Franklin, father of the American Democracy
"I 've gained this by philosophy: To do withoun being commanded what others do only from the fear of the law". Aristotelis, Greek philosopher and father of modern civilization.
"...And when time comes the candle will be blew off in the storm, keep your mind on the kid, as if the kid rescues from the storm, the hope is alive" Lyrics from a song by Mikis Theodorakis (greek composer)

Posted by Achilleas December 18, 08 07:46 AM
747.

Been there... nowdays it's better (...just better....)
But, the best of luck to you my beloved Greeks, hold on and spirits high!

the Serb

Posted by xendza December 18, 08 08:00 AM
748.

"People nowadays have no concept of what the lack of freedom truly is, merely because we have too much of it" .
That is exactly what is happening to Greece. And to some other western countries, such as France. The really sad sad thing is that Greece is the same country that once had Heraclit, Platon, Aristotel... That's the really annoying thing. Now they are "fighting" in the memory of ... what was that poor boy's name? Since when setting fire to another human being, a fellow compatriot who is doing his job (as a policeman ) has become an act of bravery in the very same country of Leonidas... How stupid these young punks can be? As a Romanian who has experienced a REAL revolution, I beg you young and angry children, FIGHT YOUR OWN MEDIOCRITY AND YOUR OWN LIMITS INSTEAD OF OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.

Posted by Hasta December 18, 08 08:18 AM
749.

Yes, actually there is going to be a civil war in Greece. Leftist people and immigrants cannot tolerate the conservatives any more and it seems that there is an ongoing civil clash between leftists and conservatives. It's a matter of time before the break up of a civil war and the dismantle of the country into separate states/countries. By the way, most leftists in Greece have non greek origin. It's not random that most of them are turko-Pontian,arab-o-Cretean,albano-Peloponisian,slav-bulgarian or italian (like the leader of SYRIZA political party Alavanos) ancestry, so it is actually a racial-cultural and not a civil matter.

Posted by UnonymousX December 18, 08 08:22 AM
750.

Our Republic is self - desroying because abused the right to freedom and equality, because the people learned to regard as intrusive right, the law as freedom of speech the cheek as equality and anarchy as bliss"
Isocrates (436 BC - 338 BC)

Posted by george December 18, 08 08:29 AM
751.

Give me a break!!!

This was an overreaction to a tragic shooting (that by the latest reports WAS accidental), and was used as an excuse by the usual anarchist miscreants to create havoc, joined this time by many inflamed and misguided youths (not to mention hordes of looters) and goaded on by self serving leftist political parties and an unbelievably sycophant media, that loves to 'stroke the ears' of the left and the anarchist thugs. The situation was compounded by the weak reaction of a government quivering in fear of any further casualties, something understandable considering the volatile nature of the situation.

The center of Athens has become the focus of every type of demonstration, from hoards of 'workers' to small groups of disgruntled 'protesters' and other malcontents that bring the whole place to a stop for hours on end on an almost daily basis. Trying to run a business in that sort of environment is equivalent to trying to climb a mountain with a sack of heavy rocks on your back.

As for Greek youth today, the poor dears had to tear themselves from sipping their frappes and lattes from the cafeterias they frequent for hours on end to ‘struggle’ against the ‘corrupt western system’ that has given them one of the highest standards of living in the world.

Oh, by the way, I am Greek and live in Athens.

Posted by Damianos December 18, 08 08:34 AM
752.

bardzo s³abo tak nie mo¿e byæ czym szybciej tym lepiej cierpi± ludzie + gospodarka Grecji

Posted by broda (Polska) December 18, 08 08:35 AM
753.

i thank god about our children there are heroes .
guys dont stop the fight .
destroy the capitalistic monsters
the people above the money .

ANTISTASI
REVOLUTION
HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE

FREEDOM ( LIKE BRAVEHEART )

Posted by JOHN SMITH December 18, 08 08:43 AM
754.

its time for revolution
open your eyes
react
get out
protest
fight
make this world a better place

Posted by ANGEL December 18, 08 08:44 AM
755.

The US is the last country that can talk about justice and righteousness , Remeber Rodney King and the L.A riots........Same shit different country!!!!!

Posted by Jay Rhodes December 18, 08 08:51 AM
756.

Οne of the boys,threw a bottle of water at the police car,and not a firebomb,the policeman was not defending himself ,but the truth is he was a member of the nazist group called ''Chrisi Avgi'' and his nickname is Rambo.
The members of this group stab immigrants and anarchists and hand in hand with the riot police beat students when they demonstrate.
The dead 15 year old boy was not an anarchist,he was going to a party with his friends and lost his life because one sick bastard had the right to carry a gun.
This is the only truth,so many witnesses saw what happened that night and a woman recorded the whole scene .

Posted by Eleni December 18, 08 08:54 AM
757.

"Greece is moving to a civil war. Some say it will be separated in 2 or 3 different countries."
You wish...

Posted by mrsmith December 18, 08 08:56 AM
758.


you can read the facts
http://athens.indymedia.org/?lang=en


Posted by Eleni December 18, 08 08:58 AM
759.

First off- F*ck the BANKERS of the WORLD destroying our currencies, selling us off as Unions and conniving the plans to control us with chips! This is a damn good reason us young folk are rising up!! And yeah, burning it all down and getting nasty with authority is WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT! I have soo much respect for all the people of Greece doing what they are- and yes, power DOES corrupt, but I think there should be an exchange of power- and not from the right to the left- thats just going to mean the same puppetmasters get the same control! Anarchy is definitely the way to go- SOKARIS drummer, an AMERICAN

Posted by MHulderman December 18, 08 09:07 AM
760.

Updates on Greek Riots…..
Updates on Greek Riots…..
Μετάβαση στα σχόλια

Since Suday morning riots broke up alla over the country…After a difficult Sunday with riots in Athens, Thessaloniki, Crete, Patras and other minor cities, came a more severe monday. Schools are closed and students were out in the streets attacking police stations and expressing pure anger. The real shocking thing for the media was that sudents were not nessecarily from deprived or economically supressed areas. The opposite the students all over the country marching were even from famous private schools….

So what this uprising is all about? Obviously a chain of events made the anger mounting the last years.

A non-mediocratic system rules the country and creates a feeling of hopeless future for the young people. State corruption, recent financial scandals, a legislation against protected labour rights, the reform of pension funds that brings inecurity to future employees, the degradation of publci universities, massive privatizations under scandalous conditions, the impoverish of large parts of population, the suffocating bank system in Greece are some of the reasons for this explosive situation.

The incident of killing in Exarchia (Athens central district and one of the famous areas with a strong left tradition…) was the last drop to our water glass. Riots and severe battles between police and anarchsits created even more anger to people. The fake “resigns” of two ministers, the tricky management of the policeman’s penal procedure and the late answet to killed child’s parents, gave more rise to anger.

At this very moment a country, member of the EU, supposingly respecting human rights and the rule of law, is governed by a government without any sollutions. A government ready to collapse or to be hunged by its own rope. The rope of transparency and modesty, that were the very essence of the reason brought this PM in power.


Posted by woman December 18, 08 09:11 AM
761.

To Anna (733):
Please tell me, where do you live? Obviously not in Greece. Or maybe you are one of those rich children that leave in another universe, who believe that you can buy everything (from material to moral values). Or you like being mediocre. Wake up because you have also contributed to this corruption, you and all of you who have the same beliefs.

Posted by Blasito Mark December 18, 08 09:14 AM
762.

A police car patroling in Exarchia, central Athens, passing through Mesologgiou cobbled street (considered an alternative place with music, bars etc and lots of youth in the streets, so we can easily assume the police car was sent there to provoke and harass the youth), was confronted by a few young people, shouting to the policemen to get lost. There are a few reports that an empty bottle of water was thrown to the police car. The cops went out of the car provoking the youth and one of the pigs shot against one 15-16 year old boy, right on the heart, murdering him in cold blood. The name of the boy that stood up to the cops is Alexandros Grigoropoulos. Young people and residents gathered, but riot police forces circled the area.

Posted by Eleni December 18, 08 09:17 AM
763.


It is a lie that the boy was an anarchist,this is a lie that the killer and his lawyer support,in order to use this [lie] at the trial,claiming that his life was in danger and fire bombs were thrown towards him.
I personally,spoke with a woman who saw everything from her balcony,when I went there last Sunday to see the spot where the boy lost his life and place a flower.
The policemen and the boys had a verbal conflict only and then the killer rose his gun and shot the boy.
No stones,no firebombs,were thrown,lies,lies....

Posted by Eleni December 18, 08 09:32 AM
764.

The rioters are nothing more than children having a good time hiding under the blanket of a cause. Polititians almost always forget who they serve. The good people trying to work hard and carve a life for their families are caught in the middle. Rioters, grow up and learn how peace works. Polititions, Remember who you are there to SERVE.
To the good people, do like you always do, roll with the punches and weather the storm.

Posted by Iron Frog December 18, 08 09:39 AM
765.

Father,
Turn the hearts of the students and antarchists...let them find the only source of love, that is not controlled by things of this earth.
Turn the hearts of this government and leaders, help these police forces to recoginze their brothers and sisters hurting and crying out for change. Let them recoginize you in the midst of this violence. Help everyone to think for themselves.
Lord move in this place.
In Christs name,
Amen

Posted by One in control December 18, 08 09:44 AM
766.

I feel nice to know that all these young people care for subjects like ,We don't give our heroes - like Great Alexander and our Macedonia to foreign countries....
Also about Health, Police , good schools , foreigh strategy, justice , democracy , wealth for all, not just for few people , e.t.c.
I believe that they are more clever than what we (-older) all are.....................

Posted by Anonymous December 18, 08 09:44 AM
767.

So many versions of what happened floating around already, and so many people willing to second guess a policeman's actions during a confrontation that they were not witness to and have no idea how it actually occurred.

Was this 15 yr old boy throwing Molotov cocktails at police, or at vehicles or buildings occupied by people? If so that's called DEADLY FORCE and should be replied to in kind. If he was not, then the policeman should answer for it. But everyone, everywhere needs to get rid of this stupid notion that protesters throwing stones and Molotovs are "unarmed", because that's plainly ridiculous.

Posted by Mule December 18, 08 09:51 AM
768.

THE PEOPLE WHO COLONIZED AMERICA WERE SOLDIERS AND KILLERS AND THE LAST OF THE LAST.....ONE THING THEY KNOW KILLING...AND IF THEY ARE NOT KILLING EACH OTHER OR THE INDIANS THEY ARE KILLING OTHER COUNTRIES...THATS HISTORY FOR YOU ALL...........GREEK HISTORY IS 4000 YEARS OLD NONE CONNECTION WITH AMERICA......THAT HAS 200 YEARS MOVIE HISTORY AND ITS HEROES....SOON GREECE WILL BE CIVILISED AS AMERICA IS AND WE VERY SOON WE WILL KILL EACH OTHER AS AMERICANS DO.....THATS PROGRESS FOR EVERYBODY ..SO WE ARE ALL A BUNCH OF JERCS AND IF THAT IS MAKING NO SENCE.....THAT IS WHY WE ARE STILLL.THE SAME IDIOTS AS WE WERE MILLIONS YEARS AGO

Posted by NIKON December 18, 08 09:56 AM
769.

"η βια ειναι το τελευταιο καταφυγιο του ανικανου"(isaac asimov) (violence is the final resort of the incapable).by the way in photo 35 its a policemans hand bleeding.u can recognise the buttons of his uniform at wrist height.

Posted by orestis December 18, 08 10:00 AM
770.

There is no reason and excuse for killing a 15 year old child.
There is no reason and excuse for burning cars, buildings and cops.
You will see that this all will end, and still politicians will be corrupt forever.
What will remain is bad taste, and pride you have lost.
It will end, when the coffeeshops will fill up again with lazy youth, reading magazines, dreaming of fast cars, small cellphones, and the latest clothes.
The only way to achieve full-filment in life is by hard work, which plenty of your parents have done many years.Yes, salaries are low, more reason to become innovative, and maybe become a good politician, fight for the real cause!


Posted by Fuzzy December 18, 08 10:06 AM
771.

Ha ha ha! you stupid americans! you are sleeping well!
This is only the begining.
Capitalism is dying...don't you see? we want everything for everyone! we are fighting the statement ant the bosses!Another world is possible WAKE UP!
An example here for your stupidity is that in picture 21 you write is the statue of Rigas Fereos!you think that in the 1798 in Greece we had clothes like that!!!???
It's hard to wake you up!i know...i am sorry for the damage that statement is making to your brains.

Posted by Anonymous December 18, 08 10:13 AM
772.

anarchists are fascists

Posted by Peter December 18, 08 10:13 AM
773.

ANARCHY!

Posted by avisioncame December 18, 08 10:19 AM
774.

There are some SMOKING hot college kids in these pics.

Posted by merrill December 18, 08 10:23 AM
775.

The way most Americans answer and react is normal for me once i know that someone who was raised watching Spiderman, batman and Hollywood cannot realize what democracy is..Obviously this is why we use Greek words in English for values like this..But still they learn them by heart without studying the etymology...I am glad that many American friends of mine are really different but the percentage of the ones who are stuck in front of TV shows and watching commercials when America bombs Iraq is fu*** huge...Such idiots govern and that's why we Greeks have to find our way to protest..Anyhow..Anytime..Vandalism came out from a minority but revolution came out of normal people who contribute to society..But if one has his eyes on the explosions (like in Hollywood) he/she cannot see the bigger picture..It’s normal…I can’t blame someone because he doesn’t get sth…but don’t talk for Greeks before you read some history..And not 200 years history but 2500 years history.. then you can judge better..and you may frick out because you will realize that you are subjects in a social experiment..answer to me personally…my email is true..I might be wrong..but I need arguments..I like many Americans..This is for the ones who commented without thinking…
Protest in peace…but protest
Georgios Mertikas

Posted by Anonymous December 18, 08 10:36 AM
776.

by the way in photo 35 its a policemans hand bleeding.u can recognise the buttons of his uniform at wrist height.

No its not take a look on his trousers

Posted by mikko December 18, 08 10:43 AM
777.

Greek people were already boiling in their blood, after the recent scandals/political corruption/economical crisis/government doing nothing over all these problems etc. Just to sum it up, listen to what happened the last years here in Greece. The whole money stock of the biggest social security provider in Greece (IKA) was stolen and never returned. The scammers were politicians along with poweful people close to the political world. They were never punished. People forgot about it when huge areas got burned down in the recent fires. Fires have burned down a great part of Greece the last years, all while the prime minister was hiding from publicity... Just after all these recent happenings, another huge thing happened. Word got out that the media representative of the prime minister was secretly trading with different people from Agion Oros (a supposed holy part of greece with its own laws, acting as a country in a country) so that they arranged trades of lands (public land parts, such as lakes and other important stuff, even outside of Greece) and other shady business. We are talking about billions of euros lost from the government, which all come from taxing the citizens. Apart from all of the above, every month there is a new scandal going on, such as politicians arranging bonuses of +1000 Euros for workers in public positions (put by the politicians of course) when the normal salary would be 700 Euros. Things like that are everyday news here and the bad thing is that NOONE even actually gets what they deserve. A group of policement hit a Cyprian student so hard last year, they were cought on VIDEO doing so and then they said the student fell on a plant for gods sake... While they were cought on VIDEO again.
They were given 4 & 6 months of jail time, all while the student was just able to escape death with such bruises.

Now tell me all of you smart and rational people (one of which is me):
What do you do when you line in a country where nothing really matters?
What do you do when you do not know if you are actually safe or not from policemen?
What do you do when you see all the public funds dissapearing into political and economical scandals?
What do you do when you see all the Greek products being sold on higher prices in Greece but in lower prices in Germany?
What do you do when you understand that the government and the next biggest movement, possibly the next government (And these 2 just exchange the government seat) are here only to steal, rape, harass and laugh at the citizens?

The only real way to make Greece become a normal country and not this ghetto of politicians is to actually either make sure none of these scumbags are reelected (never going to happen because they make ends meet for your son and daughter, so by the time the next elections are here, everybody will prefer electing them and granting their son a nice public job) or find a way to make them disappear or step down. Because Greek politicians are neither afraid, nor ashamed of whatever happens, nothing of the above will ever happen. Thats the reason all these people rioted against the system. Because they know, that for each euro they pay in taxes, someone's pocket is getting richer every day. Because they know that their brother might have been the one that was killed. Now let me know what would YOU do?

Although i hate violence, i sincerely hope every public property & place is completely demolished NOW. This is the only way that everything will start up from 0 again. This country cannot be saved with small change. This country needs a revolution, exactly like in 1974, when students locked in the University of Athens made people fight to bring down the military state governing Greece back then.

Posted by George December 18, 08 11:01 AM
778.

A photo hides a thousand lies...
Obviously for all of us who are leaving in greece the social revolution theme is just a joke.
Obviously all of you writting about protestors against goverment/ capitalism or youth revolution only express your wishfull thinking.
A bunch of idiots dont make a revolution.
Beware of the time that all we, which work 12 hours a day, to make both ends meet
get out of the streets haunting the minority who elects to destroy than to strive for a better future.

ps1. for all you that explain the riots as a consequence of police gunfire what we should do when an immigrant( albanian) kills another one?
throw them all at the sea or burn them in acropolis? dont you understand that your actions bears no difference to the worst facist.

ps2. it is easy to claim anarchist/ right or whatever youwant when you live in psychico (wealthu suburb ) and your futher makes a fortune per day.

ps3. if this a social revolution please burn oyr stupid tv journalist along with their buildings.
ps

Posted by theo December 18, 08 11:05 AM
779.

News flash... all civil problems are local. Trying to solve problems that are not your own, especially by assuming that your feeling trump tribal sentiment can only lead to resentment. Talking about things which we know little or nothing about only prove our ignorance in the eyes of those directly involved. There is no right or wrong, there is no guilty verdict. What tragically happened to a 15 year old boy was only the tipping point for something brewing in Greece for quite some time. I wont pretend to preach to any of you what problem or fix is... and to anyone who thinks what's going in Greece is solely about a boy or a cop, please go back to work and do something productive.

Also, to John (#642) - do you realize what a hypocrite you sound like? It's because of people like you that make it easy for the world to judge what's happening in Greece. Do you self a favor and keep it about the issues so we can understand what you're going through. Help us to not be "ignorant Americans".

Posted by Niko December 18, 08 11:07 AM
780.

Common sense! Did anyone EVER wonder WHY a 15 yr old (a known reckless trouble maker) is out after dark by himself? If I wasn't home by the time the street lights came on I was IN TROUBLE!!!

And just what are the police supposed to do? Ask for his ID before or after they get fatally wounded?!! Daaa... Dumb & dumber!

In the USA if you threaten an officer of the law you can & will die. That's the way it is & should be! Where are the kids parents? They should pay all damages!!!

Posted by Teradog December 18, 08 11:14 AM
781.

"There is no reason and excuse for killing a 15 year old child"

If that 15 year old child is trying to kill you, that's a pretty compelling "excuse". And that's exactly what a Molotov cocktail is. It's not spraypaint on a storefront or popping the tires on cop cars, it's deadly force. It can kill you. There's a line here and IF it was crossed (and I don't know that it was or not, I wasn't there) that shooting was justified.

Posted by Mule December 18, 08 11:16 AM
782.

I n Greece we have confused everything. Some people think that if you attack to a policeman or if you burn cars and buildings you become a rebel for the common good. For sure there is a dramatic fact. A policeman, with out any obvious reason shot against a company of children and killed one of it. Tragic indeed. This stupid and dangerous for the society policeman has to be punished severely. But this is not a good excuse for the chaos that has been created. In Greece we live on a daily base for many decades the “democracy of the minorities”. 50 people for any reason, reasonable or not, fair or not, can close central avenues and create a traffic mess. Is this democratic? In Greece we live the pervasion of democracy. And if the authorities continue to ignore the real common good and to not react, the time will come that the silent and hard working real democratic majority will come to roads. Not against the incapable and corrupted politicians, but against the minorities that burn, destroy and underestimate the quality of our lives and the quality of our democracy.

Posted by Maximos December 18, 08 11:20 AM
783.

it is nice to see young people standing up against corruption and an evil government. i do NOT agree with the way they are doing it. I think the people of the world would be more supportive if every student and young adult did peace protests rather then burning down buildings and cars. i have read a lot of these posts that say that a life is worth more than a shop. i totally agree but that still does not mean you have the right to burn down a persons store or car. that is putting you on the same level as the corrupt people. have a sit out in front of governement buildings, anything other than destroying your beautifuly and historically rich city. i have always wanted to travel to greece and i hope that this horrible events end in a ppeacefull way. i apolgize for typos towards the end. for some reason i cant see the words i am typing. god bless all people of the world

Posted by Mike December 18, 08 11:23 AM
784.

omg! The looting is disgraceful but I don't know what is worse! Did you read the comments!? I had to stop, I was getting angry reading some of them! statements such as "burn everything to the ground," "America should do the same"

Although I agree, government is corrupt, but why destroy our communities? Its not our "mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, friends who owned these business's, fault!"
...why? Where would we live? What does is solve? "Show the goverment we're not affraid" Ok, fine, then every person in Greece unite and dont pay taxes, lol. Ive been telling fellow americas, what you think would happen if we did that? How does burning our homes help us?

"The harming of innocent civilians by rioting thugs is no more noble than a cop gunning down an unarmed 15-yr old."

and btw, someone should tell Greece, that the greeks of the USA never supported the war or Bush! I don't know one greek, do you?

Posted by Angela Valos December 18, 08 11:44 AM
785.

I don't know how people can condone this type of violence. Fundamental change can only happen through ideas and not violence.

The Greek rioters are "cutting their noses to spite their face." You can dress this situation anyway you want, but in the end, there is just ruin and blame.

What's interesting about these pictures is that the rioters have their stylish clothes, ripped jeans and fancy sun glasses. One person is wearing a Nike jacket. They think there are problems in Greece? All these people have food to eat and hang out and drink coffee all day. They just can't help themselves and want to live off the government. When the government cuts out their free hand out, they start talking about Democracy, like it has anything to do with it. This is just a form of terrorism. They love the anarchy because it keeps the people trying to get ahead down, so all the free loaders do not have to accept any personal responsibility for their situation. If everyone is broke they don't feel like such losers.

Btw, where are the rioters' families. I can't believe they're condoning this violence.

Posted by Nick S December 18, 08 11:56 AM
786.

These people are insane. They'll kill innocent people in traffic accidents every day and don't insight change. This is a fact. We saw a girl run over in the middle of a street by a reckless driver when I vacationed there.

I have a lot of family there and they say they hear it all the time.

They act like they value human life b/c this kid was shot, but they're all hypocrites. It's shameful.

Posted by Nick S December 18, 08 12:00 PM
787.

AFTER ALL THESE DEMONSTRATIONS, I THINK THAT THE PUBLIC SCHOOL IS OVER.THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE FULL.
THE POOR AND LAZY PROTESTERS DESTROY THEIR FUTURE. THE RICH PEOPLE WILL BE RICHER.
IN THE PAST THEY SAID:PSOMI,PAIDEIA ELEYTHERIA. BUT NOW YOU SAY:SOUVLAKI, ANARXIA,KAFETERIA.
ALL OF YOU MY POOR AND FOOL GUYS ARE FREE TO BURN EVERYTHING. REALLY NONE CAFE HAS BEEN BURNT.
CONTINUE SLEEPING.

Posted by PANOS December 18, 08 12:12 PM
788.

Support the student movement, condemn the violence, and isolate the criminals and the politicians that support the riots. This is not what democracy is all about, this is what extremists with no arguments and politicians with short sited political agendas do to achieve and impose their will to the rest of us - Say NO to violence and destruction everywhere.

Posted by Joe December 18, 08 12:15 PM
789.

For all the people who have passed a million times outside the University but never bothered to have a closer at our national heritage, photo 21 is in fact Rigas Feraios.

http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A1%CE%AE%CE%B3%CE%B1%CF%82_%CE%A6%CE%B5%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%AF%CE%BF%CF%82

http://www.thourio.gr/manager/publish/article_681.shtml

I pity the people who spray painted it.
People who don't have respect for anything, don't deserve respect from society.

Posted by KD December 18, 08 12:24 PM
790.

To the ignorant Orestis of comment 767

The bleeding hand belongs to a very respected person , A. Karydis , 79 but i dont expect you to know anything about him.

To the hard working Theo of comment 776

I' m sure you re struggling all day long in the factory....

Posted by Grandadd December 18, 08 12:32 PM
791.

Stop the burning! Use your energy to build your country, NOT to destroy it.

Posted by Marcus December 18, 08 12:37 PM
792.

The voice of the children is the voice of the God!
The goverments of the lies shall fall, share this spirit that is burning and with this fire lets make a new world, pure and fair.

One more Greek...

And it is Hellas not Greece, our name actually ...

Posted by Strawhat Nikos December 18, 08 12:39 PM
793.

Just when we were thinking that the history was over, the world would never change, sleeping in the soporific haze of a new unipolar world, spirit of our time is changing.

Even more interesting changes are due to happen. When the existential crisis in the form of economic breakdown hits the world, what we percieve today will appear very different.

A storm is coming.

Posted by Observer of Nature December 18, 08 12:45 PM
794.

''..........................No scar on your soul
When You fight on like a true psycho
Roam inside the circle
And go crazy like sicko
Go stand on the front lines
And pick up on the signs of war time
One time makes strange days
Now we run wild in the fields with the blade
Come take a stand, my man
Or end up in am of steel rain
Shots, puncture wounds, straight pain
Aun't no time to explain
The action that caused the chain reaction
Explode, the whole world red code
Truth gets sparked, you lay cold

And watch this revolution unfold..............''

Posted by mace December 18, 08 12:48 PM
795.

Surely all those fires and teargas are adding to Global warming. No carbon credits for you.

Posted by Anonymous December 18, 08 12:48 PM
796.

JUST REMEMBER THIS : In all revolutions that took place in history, the rebels were called 'terrorists' by the rest of the society...

Posted by YL December 18, 08 12:57 PM
797.

Why do you want to destroy your own cities and country? Who do you think will rebuild it all? The way to freedom is through education. The youth of Greece need to embrace their history and get educated, get decent jobs, or help create decent jobs. All govenment is corrupt all over the world. The fat cats, politicians and rich tycoons try to rule the world everywhere, they always have and always will. No one owes you anything,go to school, learn as much as you can, surround yourself with inteligent worldly people, get a good job, if you cant find one in Greece, help create one or move to another country. Stop complaining, stop destoying your cities.

Posted by f. December 18, 08 12:58 PM
798.

You pathetic beings. I restrain from using the word human since you have not lived long enough to qualify as such. Most of the things burned and destroyed belong to people, NOT government. The ones responsible for the situation in your country (and mine, and many other) are the ones who gave you life. The ones who bribe and cheat so that the future of their offspring will be better than theirs. The ones you will transform yourself into one day... isn't that ironic?!? And there lies the answer, not in vandalizing the things achieved through the little honest work still to be found. Spend enough time and wisdom so that your pappa wont ask for 370euros for a studio just becaouse your neighbour rented his studio with 350. :Get it

Posted by Anonymous December 18, 08 12:59 PM
799.

JUST REMEMBER THIS : In all revolutions that took place in history, the rebels were called 'terrorists' by the rest of the society...

Posted by YL December 18, 08 01:00 PM
800.

Isolate the ones that seek destruction and political gains out of this mess. They have only one goal in mind ...how to grab power and impose a totalitarian regime over Greece.

Posted by Nick December 18, 08 01:14 PM
801.

Hasta, it is not your country. So, don't give them lessons! Obviously, you didn't do much for the Revolution in Romania. Then, you would know, that's how you got your freedom, fighting the goverment.
It is not about Alexandros (he was just a kid, with a kid you find a method to deal with, not kill him ... shame on you, the one that said he was a criminal, I didn't see the policeman dead yet!), it is about the difficult life that young people have in Greece nowadays.
A Romanian who lived there many years and visited recently and had a shock how bad things are.

Posted by Elena December 18, 08 01:19 PM
802.

.....yes the government sucks, yes some people (that don't have college degree's) earn 700€ a month , yes the police officer shot the kid (who was in fact no saint), yes our lives are going down the drain, yes,yes,yes..... but the the thing is that
anarchists live for breaking and burning private property (they probably think it's cool or something...) and they love to throw Molotov cocktails at police officers, (it's kind of like "they're thing") they've done this a thousand times in the past, and they'll do it a thousand times in the future. They don't care if the kid got killed, all they wanted to do was burn the whole country down to a crisp and they found an excuse to do it.
Things are not as bad as they seem, We Greeks are

Posted by Ronnie Greece December 18, 08 01:19 PM
803.

Turn you back to corrupt politicians by voting them out of power, if that is what you believe, not by destroying your cities.

Posted by peter December 18, 08 01:24 PM
804.

Keep resisting! Keep on fighting! And continue to show the world that this is the result of governmments that abuse the power they have!

I understand that in this case violence is necessary, but please try to control it hitting only the ones that deserve it (and not burning cars of innocent citizens?).

The Portuguese Extreme-Left is here supporting you and doing demonstrations in front of the Greek Embassee!

Together we can show the world that the reason is in our side and that the way the world is developing will only lead to huge social problems!

Posted by Pedro Feijó December 18, 08 01:31 PM
805.

To all the ignorant ppl who keep saying that the kid that was killed threatened the policeman who killed him learn that it is accepted and verified that he didnt thretened the policenmen in any way!No molotoves,no guns,no knives nothing at all..! it was murder in cold blood..Try to read a little bit and not covering every issue on its surface!! Enough with ignorance and oblivion!! Wake up!

Posted by Chris G December 18, 08 01:33 PM
806.

Greeks are not naïve, they know what is happening. Shame to the politicians that ignite the fire bombs in the student hands. Stop the violence now!

Posted by Marie December 18, 08 01:34 PM
807.

If this was happening here in Chicago USA we would have few on the ground.
When you kill A's you kill dogs.

Posted by N.Athinaios December 18, 08 01:42 PM
808.

LOL at "anarchists" throwing stones at cops while wearing nike and gap.

Posted by matt December 18, 08 01:45 PM
809.

Close your ears to the extremists' calls for violence, they are the contemporary sirens, however they seek your demise as well. Fight for democracy and for your right to live and have a future in a peaceful democratic society.

No to violance!

Posted by Jim December 18, 08 01:47 PM
810.

What is with the " We are so down trodden" act - Yet all the protesters on here can manage to get hold of a computer?

Posted by Hugh Janus December 18, 08 02:01 PM
811.

To burn down a city, it’s easy, to build a future with hard work it is difficult. If you want a revolution, get up tomorrow morning and go to your schools and work places. Don’t listen to the politicians and their underground operatives that seek to destroy Greece.

Posted by ed December 18, 08 02:06 PM
812.

Dear Asim,

The boy that was shot wasn't an anarchist. He was just a kid in a cafe (coffee shop) drinking coffee with his friends. All he did was to exit the cafe and see what's was going on. Imagine yourself drinking some coffee exit the shop to see what's happening and you end up dead. That's plain cold blood murder my friend.

Posted by Nick December 18, 08 02:13 PM
813.

Police is formed by a society to protect itself.
Obviously, in this case, society instanty judged the actions of it's
"defenders" wrong.

A portion decided to protest . Another portion decided to react primetively and scavange whatever was in it's reach. Another portion is sitting on the couch and zaps from channel to channel ,and creates an opinion by what ,yet another portion of the society, broadcasts as facts and "expert" opinions.
The last group is guided by the smallest but most powerful group of all:
the ones who managed to get a (small or big) part in this game that goes on in Greece . I call it the cyrcle of power. Politicians , bussinessmen, "elit "(?!?!) .

But the biggest problem is not them.
It's us, people who wish to become part of this cyrcle, or even worse, the ones who try to act with the same rules and ways of the sharks.

I keep thinking, it;s so easy for everything to change. But noone seems to focus on what's really the essence of it all.

Humility and self-respect needs to be rediscovered.
Punishment for those who's stupidity and greed creates imbalance.
Bravery in supporting our decisions.
Clarity.

Posted by one December 18, 08 02:16 PM
814.

Asim Ferhatovic on 711 wrote the following:
"They made the headlines alright. But why? To protest against what? A death of an "anarchist", a "vandal"? Like themselves... What did the local store owner did to deserve to demolish his store? What did the car owner did to deserve to get his car burnt?
They just proved the point that they deserve the same fortune as their "beloved" comrade...
Just an evidence of lack of intelligence..."

You are clearly clueless.. So I am only going to say the following:
I really hope hope that the next victim of a police shooting is someone you know.
Maybe then you'll understand...

They were just 15 year-old children who were attacked by a very well known "Rambo" of the local police.
It's a shame that the goody-good cops did nothing about their colleague all this time...

Let's all fight for equality, freedom and education...

We must put a stop to this corruption and inform people like Mr. Asim Ferhatovic about the real situation.

Otherwise people like him will go on spouting crap and infuriating those of us fighting for our rights...

Posted by TedManowar December 18, 08 02:17 PM
815.

These protesters are not all anarchists. They are teenagers and college students that are pissed off that one of their fellow peers was shot to death for no reason by someone that is suppose to protect them. They are tired of their government mismanaging their country, a weakening economy and public figures that are too corrupt to care about what happens to the unfortunate and poor. I don't agree with the destruction of other people's property but the government will pay to fix the damage as they should. Maybe they can use some of that bribe money.

How much does a boy's life cost?

Posted by Yioryios S December 18, 08 02:25 PM
816.

Jesus Christ ,Son of God have mercy on us!

Posted by TikhonFlores December 18, 08 02:30 PM
817.

It is obvious that there are a lot of people, many who have posted comments on here, that have no clue what violence is and neither the source of it. For those of you who have been blindly guided by capitalist ideologies; just think! who is the the greatest criminal? an anarchist who is on the streets expressing the passion and love of freedom at no mater the cost even at the stake of his own life or a well suited politician who admits policies that degrade the quality of life and furthermore causes millions of deaths caused by not having enough to eat? shame on you who put profits over people, property over life, and slavery over freedom, shame on you, you loveless, passionless, pieces of shit!

Posted by pelengue December 18, 08 02:31 PM
818.

SO you think that by destroing properties and vandalize shops the Jounda will go down!
We live - beleive it or not - in a DEMOCRATIC society and not in an Anarchist heaven.
In Democracy all of us who have Political Rights (Vote, go to army, pay taxes etc) have the opportunity to change the people that govern us.
The 15 years old children DO NOT have any right at all.
Their parents are responsible for them and finally must pay for their actions.

Posted by Ellin Polotis kai Forologoumenos December 18, 08 02:36 PM
819.

The citizens of Greece are no stranger to corruption in government. Because of their history - Greek citizens know the rule of the people often goes bad and that corrupted government must be outcast from time to time:

Interesting how the American news is hardly covering what's going on in Greece. This serves as an example of what Americans should do if this corruption continues in the USA too. It's right in the Declaration of Independence!

Posted by John December 18, 08 02:44 PM
820.

good to see cops are violent, pathetic, corrupt cowards all over the world like they are here. I support these riots 110%, murdering innocent civilians, let alone children, is NEVER to be forgiven.

Posted by heebe jebbes December 18, 08 02:45 PM
821.

No more lies. Ask who is paying the extremists' bills and provide the drugs and the weapons they are using. No more violence - Resistance now!

Posted by luis December 18, 08 02:45 PM
822.

ITALIAN STUDENTS MORALLY SUPPORTS GREEK STUDENTS!

Posted by An Italian Student December 18, 08 02:47 PM
823.

"lack of a public education system" is why we don't riot?? Not really a great argument for more education funding dude.

Posted by dave December 18, 08 02:50 PM
824.

Ellin Polotis, obviously you voted for the wrong guys this time, and obviously your democracy doesn't work nor your rights respected. I thank Greece for the lesson of democracy, and this time, I thank her for this new lesson. I hope this movement spreads all over the world. Remember comrades! The Third World War will not be waged against nations, but on the people who stand up and fight the this violent monopoly that we know as "state".

Posted by pelengue December 18, 08 02:55 PM
825.

freaks, do something productive and get a job.

Posted by capitalist December 18, 08 02:57 PM
826.

Isolate extemists around the world. They are the cancer of our societies !

Posted by Jash December 18, 08 03:04 PM
827.

741 that was one of the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And 734... F*** YOU. I wish it had been your son or your brother in the place of Alexis. That's the only flaw in the freedom of speech, that we are obliged to listen to ignorant idiots like you farting from their mouths. I'm ashamed to be from the same country as you and people like the fascist-pig-cop dimitris who was trashing the victim and supporting the murderer psycho Rambo cop. In fact I'm ashamed to be of the shame species as you. You are not in position to tell people what to do, the menace to societies worldwide are people as simpleton, stupid and uneducated such as yourself. Remember this next time you look at your ugly face in the mirror.

Posted by Politis December 18, 08 03:06 PM
828.

@730, Where did you get that quote?

Posted by Humanithai December 18, 08 03:09 PM
829.

so many witnesses ,describing the same facts,that it a murder and not an act of self defence.
''This video contains testimonies of some of the many eye-witnesses.

Here goes.

1st witness
-We saw them at some point, with guns in their hands walking down the street.
-Both of them?
-Both.
-And? Where did they stop?
-Here, right here. They started cussing here, “Come here punks, come and settle this”. Some kids approached.

2nd witness
-During this verbal fight, we saw no objects being thrown, suddenly one of them pulls out his gun and opens fire, straight ahead. We took a careful look and noticed someone on the ground, being dragged away by his friends, probably in fear that he would shoot again. Anyway, this is what happened, the officers were just standing still and then walked away. They turned away and left, on foot.

3rd witness
-I saw the extension of his arms, I saw him aiming. The extension of his arms, not the position of his body. I was behind him. And he aimed. He aimed towards the other end of the street, towards that group.

4th witness
-They were exchanging words. It was intense. Suddenly, without any other intervention, the patrol car abruptly departs and some time later the officers return. They stood in front of the kids and gunshots were heard. One of the kids, fell.

1st witness - resumed
-3 shots?
-3 shots because he didn’t hit him at first. This man wanted to kill. Simple as that.

5th witness
-We heard two bangs. I immediately understood it was gunfire from the sound of the very first shot. I heard the second shot, followed by a scream and a kid falling to the ground. We headed towards the kid, we dragged him away.
-What did the police do?
-The police turned their backs, as if nothing had happened, and left. We lifted his shirt, he was bleeding. We gave him CPR, the ambulance was late.

6th witness
-I saw the patrol car between Zoodoxou Pigis street and Tzavela street, it left but a minute later, the two drivers came back. They were both armed and they shot that kid, without a reason.
-Did you see them aiming?
-Yes, they were aiming.
-They didn’t shoot up to intimidate?
-No, they shot the kids that were standing there.
-Did they see the kid falling dead?
-Yes, someone shouted that the kid was wounded, but they turned and left.

Those testimonies are a bit useless without knowing what the cops themselves testified.

They claimed they were attacked by a group of 30 hooded anarchists, with rocks, sticks and molotov cocktails, while in the car. They stepped on the gas to evade them, but later returned to arrest them. They were attacked once more and while in self defense, they threw a flashbang grenade, fired two shots in the sky to intimidate the attackers and one in the ground. The last one hit the ground but ricocheted.

They’ve been flipping their story until today. Their first two lawyers have already retired from their case, for ethical reasons. The ballistic examination was completed today. The bullet remained inside the body and it indicated that it came from a higher level (the pistol) to a lower level (the victim’s body). If it was indeed a ricochet, the bullet would have entered from a lower level (the street) to a higher [point], the point of entry in the body.

At first, all media adopted the cop’s case, spreading similar news worldwide.

Now, they talk about murder in cold blood.''
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LPfwXMg06H0
The video with the witnesses is in greek but I post it for those who doubt...[they can ask from somebody who speaks greek ,to translate it.

Also the video[recorded by a woman from her balcony,which she handed to the .D.A]showing the 2 policemen walking away after the murder.They don't seem in danger[no anarchists nearby endangering their lives...]
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx_5jl8d-hw&feature=related

PLEASE,stop blaming the innocent dead boy.
[the policeman last night,after beating his cellmate[the other policeman],declared he's God's angel and the other one ,a devil who needs exorcism].


also a video [recorded by a womam from her balcony,

Posted by woman December 18, 08 03:09 PM
830.

Obviously Italian students are as stupid and naive as Greek students. Go ahead and burn down your neighborhoods in the name of whatever poison you are spewing. Innocent people and their livelihoods are being destroyed by these selfish criminals. You have something intelligent to say? Then say it. Complaining about the economy? How is destroying institutions and businesses going to help? Obviously these rioting thugs have nothing to offer except a lust for misery. They have caused more destruction than the police they blame the world's ills on.

And to the person who said it isn't being covered in the US, it is. Get out of your cave. Rioting mobs are no better than a corrupt governmnet. Maybe even worse.


Posted by Disgusted December 18, 08 03:11 PM
831.


beautiful pictures, rioting is beautiful, lets do it more often

Posted by antihero December 18, 08 03:13 PM
832.

Thomas Jefferson said: "... God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

Posted by George December 18, 08 03:16 PM
833.

Greece....your civilization is determined by YOU! Stop shuffling blame! Who is destroying your cities? Who is in control of your actions? Who determines the composition and behavior of the government? You do! You can change things peaceably or you can descend into violence and barbarism. Choosing not to decide defaults to violence. Ask yourself, which is the better alternative? How is all this destruction supposed to compensate for the loss of a child?

Posted by Rationalist December 18, 08 03:18 PM
834.

LOL @ 827 and 827, go to school study philosophy and learn the process of reasoning. GOD! no wonder why we have governments if the majority don't think.

Posted by pelengue December 18, 08 03:22 PM
835.

Who is funding the riots? Follow the money and you will find the truth. Stop the Destruction now. No safe haven for the extremist anywhere in the world.

No more violance!

Posted by Jeff December 18, 08 03:24 PM
836.

I guess I am just a little confused as to what Molotov Cocktails and Stones solve? There is no doubt that the police action was disgraceful, but what does all this violence solve? It seems to me that the solution to violence and corruption is not violence and destruction... Someone above complained about terrible taxes.. 1. taxes suck no no one likes them and yes they are probably distributed unevenly but that is life and 2. taxes are only going to increase as a result of destruction because when things get resolved (I cannot imagine this will last forever) taxes will be used to pay for all the damages that have been done (stores, cars, public properties, hospital bills)... It seems to me that you could better prover your point and get what you want by a more pacifistic resistance (sit-ins, boycotts, etc...)

But hey what do I know, I'm not there so I acknowledge that I may be completely wrong and would probably look at it completely differently if I was...

Posted by Danny December 18, 08 03:28 PM
837.

I was asked once by a Swedish lady who spent a lot of time in Greece: " How come you have the most beautiful land on earth and you hate it so much ....." How come you guys/(girls?) are protesting for the death of a fellow young man or for a "better life" and you destroy the lives and well being of innocent people, or whatever could add to a "better life" in our land. A beautiful building, a statue, a tree, or even a flower not to speak of our heritage almost the only thing that we can be really proud of ! With so much hatred in your hearts, with so much chaos and ugliness that you are creating how can you possibly convince us that you're
aiming for a ... better world.

Posted by Korinna Eugenie December 18, 08 03:29 PM
838.

Peace and democracy have been misinterpreted again in this beautiful country! It is so sad...

Posted by a civilian of the world December 18, 08 03:32 PM
839.

Those anarchists out there have no respect for other peoples' property. Most of them dont even know what they are protesting against. It's just so cool for them to shout and to throw burning items into the Police. I hope that the Greek government will make them pay for all the loss incurred by the society for the protests.

I tell all those protesters out there: get yourselfes to work! You lasy ($*@)#

Posted by Pawel M from Poland December 18, 08 03:38 PM
840.

@ 836 There is no more beauty than action! statues and buildings are mere symbols of capitalism and patriotism. Regard patriotism in the same sense as, racism, sexism, ageism, etc. The murderous state must fall and those cops should join the resistance for they are victims too.

Posted by pelengue December 18, 08 03:50 PM
841.

this is the result of all the corruption!!!

that policeman is just the scapegoat...the guvernment should be changed....and also the president should resign!!!

Posted by jake December 18, 08 03:54 PM
842.

To Korinna:tell your Swedish friend that she doesn't know what she is talking about.The children in the protest marches are fighting for their lives, for their future.
Because we adults have created a society that is getting worse and worse.
A tree, a flower, a building are not MORE important than children's lives!
There is a lot of love in the hearts of Greek children, and they know the meaning of the word solidarity. I live in Greece, I am a teacher.The vandals are not the Greek children, they are the usual hooligans or police informants that always make things worse for the Greek People. Stop misplacing the blame.

Posted by Brigitte December 18, 08 03:58 PM
843.

Greece has arguably the lost Left wing government in europe. So, Greek People, please enjoy your socialist Big Government slave masters. You want freedom? Try free market capitalism with limited government. Free Markets fro Free Men. there is no other alternative. Greece will continue its Socialist system, yet the Greeks will continue to be bewilderd by their diminishing living standards and dearth of opportunity. the Greeks are some of the brightes, most talented people in the world (Iam not Greek). Yet they continue to suffer with Left Wing ideology they are indoctrinated with in their "schools". This is not a revolutionary idea.

Posted by salk1 December 18, 08 04:04 PM
844.

People who claim these protestors have nothing but hatred and destruction inside of them lose sight of perhaps just why these students are doing what they are doing. They are fighting against the corporate oligarchy, the police state, the hollow democracy of their government, the loss of a golden age of free thought, citizen involvement, and justice for the individual, a 15-year-old boy who would simply be another number, another senseless corpse if it weren't for the international attention they have garnered. It is a fight against the institutions and the veil of lies that cover up the elite getting richer, and the poor getting poorer. I sympathize with the innocent people whose property was lost in the wreckage, or the police officers injured who were trying to maintain the peace.

But shame on this government for its policies, likewise for the rest of the increasingly totalitarian world. The elite have harnessed the power of the corporation and the executive's power has expanded beyond the democracy we like to believe we have. Power is getting in the way of humanity, and we see it in environmental and economic policies our world is being compromised by, derived from the powers that be. Peaceful protest is possible, Gandhi and the Boston Tea Party for example, but sometimes the government needs to know that people are aware, and still have power. They see through the brainwashing words and sentiments of our indoctrinating education, having us buy into the status quo, when there is much work to be done to bring our societies to true equality and freedom for all. Without us, government's would have nothing. They need our support, and when they abuse our trust, they need to know.

There is no right/wrong here. The students rebellion is an expression of their freedom and power, even in the hands of an increasingly authoritarian right-wing government, but the destruction spiraling into chaos, without any end or aim, is trivial at best. Instead of passing judgement on their actions, take this is a symptom of our world, where students are upset at the decisions of our leaders, and are trying to do something about it.

Posted by Phil Anthropy December 18, 08 04:05 PM
845.

we have cops under control

Posted by anma December 18, 08 04:14 PM
846.

odd all the America bashing going on here...we have many MANY faults, i know, but it seems like Greece wouldnt be in its current total of totally aimless CONFUSION and strife if its governmental, educational, and social systems were half as strong as Americas. America's greatest strength is an ability to identify and correct the faults through constructive means - not burning things and attacking police in blind rage. of course, our process still has many shortcomings. but we live in a FREE country, we have reasonably competent government (HELLO! LOOK AT OBAMA!!), and if you work hard (or not even) you can have a happy life. Seems like thats all these Greek protesters want. Not sure they are really addressing the problem here though. and by the way, capitalism and globalization is here to stay whether you like it not. its a fact.

Posted by Anonymous December 18, 08 04:20 PM
847.

The next steps of uprising are these:
1. Turn your back totally to consumerism.
2. Avoid to have any business with the Banks, and
3. In the next elections to go to vote (all politicians are the same).

Posted by Evagelos December 18, 08 04:24 PM
848.

The real tragedy is that the death of a teenager, which has grown into a catastrophe for some, will not affect those trully responsible. The systemic corruption which has plagued Greece since its re-birth in the mid 19th c. is very deeply rooted. Politicians from the entire spectrum, big business, union leaders and a multitude of pressure groups will be left largely untouched. The police are in the middle of it and are unjustly being blamed for every ill in the running of the state. The victim teenager was not a poor, underprivileged kid from some getto neighbourhood, but the complete indifference of his parents left him less more exposed than any hobo. THERE ARE FEW INNOCENTS IN THIS STORY!

Posted by Prantoni December 18, 08 04:30 PM
849.

I love the clarity and focus of these photos. Whoever took them did a good job. This is a sad event to see. Riots do tend to go over board. However, they should have done something about the boy being shot dead as quick as possible to avoid all this chaos.

Posted by Amber December 18, 08 04:33 PM
850.

I have one word for everyone...

Ghandi

I don't think he killed anyone, and he freed India at a time when they were being even more brutally repressed. It isn't easy, but sometimes its best to kill someone with love.

Posted by Robert December 18, 08 04:34 PM
851.

LOL @ 845! I don't know what you are, either stupid or ignorant, one advice read Noam Chomsky please!

Posted by pelengue December 18, 08 04:40 PM
852.

Greek women are hot even when they riot. Thanks for pic 7 & 34.

Posted by arfcom December 18, 08 04:49 PM
853.

If I do not burn, If you do not burn, If we do not burn, How will darkness come to light?
Nazim Hikmet

This is it.
“If election could change things, it would be illegal”
Changing is scary. Fortunatelly, there are people that don¢t care only for their convenience and yes: I am proud of belonging to this generation, proud of the today youth of this country. Property can be re-made. But if we manage to comprehend the power that citizens have and apply it to the rights we pretend, then it would be real Democracy. This power finds expression now awkwardly with all these damages. But I trust them. All this happens for all of us, for our awakening and all together can fix it all over again.

Posted by Christina - Thessaloniki, Greece December 18, 08 04:50 PM
854.

Isnt about anarchy...is about dignity. In my country, Mexico, cops can kill a boy and none says nothing or someone raise the voice just to be quiet...again......
I do believe: ANOTHER WORLD IS POSIBLE
and its coming.......

Photos are amazing. I really like the Christmas tree on fire, want to do something like that...

Posted by C December 18, 08 04:52 PM
855.

Damianos has no clue on what he is saying. Which latest report says that it was "an accident?" Do you mean the ones that the lawyer of the murderer talks about every day? Dont forget that his lawyer (Kougias) is deleted from the lists of lawyers since May 2008 because of his immoral behavour and soon the decision will be executed. The latest official reports support that it was definitely not an accident and that his gun aimed straight to the kids heart. The same thing have stated all the witnesses... NOONE of the people that witness the murder said anything different than that.
So pls stop hurting the memory of this kid.... show some respect.

Posted by Mayia December 18, 08 04:55 PM
856.

This seems to be a reaction to more than the 15 year old, it seems it is out of frustration with the current euro inflation that has made life expensive and jobs for youth scarce. But the Greeks have a bent for the dramatic, and this is it.

Posted by Thomas December 18, 08 05:00 PM
857.

Honestly, you people posting here are wasting your time, just like I am.

Those who support the rioters have no idea what happened or what they're talking about. They're just naive, and very bigoted, fools who have glommed on to some vague idealogical concept they barely comprehend. They obviously don't know right from wrong, for how else could someone defend the burning of another citizen's car or business. They see those who don't support the riots as the incarnation of Evil, and thus won't hear a word said by any such person.

Those who don't support the rioters understand how the world actually works, and what people's motives really are. They aren't remotely interested in the inept and misguided political blatherings of teenagers and college students, and thus won't hear a word said by any such person.

Both parties: Save your time and find something better to do.

Posted by Aiken December 18, 08 05:11 PM
858.

During the French revolution in 1789
''Revolutionary zealots destroy church property
As revolutionary fever spread around France, Church property became a major focus of the mobs' anger. In the North, as elsewhere, the Church was a major landowner and landlord. Bishops and the clergy lived like aristocrats. They used their power and influence to support the established authorities and protect their own wealth and position. The mobs destroyed many churches, cathedrals and monasteries. Many artistic and historic treasures were looted, burnt or smashed - a heritage built up from the Middle ages lost for ever.''

although historic treasures were burnt,French people are proud of the 1789 revolution,and they should be.
At least in Greece,the angry mobs[poor,jobless,students,,immigrants,anarchists,citizens fed up with the police
violence and the goverment's corruption]
burn or smash banks,police cars, govermental buildings and not any historical ones.Small shops were burnt or smashed not by anarchists but by ''someones'' who are acting so,obeying orders ,so very tough measures against anyone who will protest in the future for better wages,for the right to have a job,for a better
education, for health care, will be implemented in the future.


Posted by woman December 18, 08 05:21 PM
859.

I guess no one can say this is a perfect world.
Corrupt governments, police brutality, corporate greed and iresponsibility, lack of concern for the future generations is something most people have experienced first hand one way or another.

And I think protests are one powerfull way to change things - which is very important for a healthy democracy; it's a great thing that the Greek society found the strenght to rally and protest against what they though it was wrong (I'm not debating if the protesters are right or wrong, but they are showing some powerful convictions concerning certain things).


Still, writing anarchy symbols on art items, throwing Molotov cockteils everywhere and burning down schools is nothing more than pure violence - too much testosteron and no real thought. Yeah, no government, no corporations, no police. What next then?? Try to think one step further guys.
Actually building something is much more difficult than throwing stones.

I've seen something similar in my country, but it was done by miners called on and manipulated by communists trying to held on to power by all means. It ended up in many innocent people killed and I believe a decade of development delay for my country.


This is no rebellion , this is simply rioting - thugs running loose on the streets. Rioting doesn't protect anything in my opinion, even less so the democracy. It is no principle they are defending this way, they are just immature kids with no sense of responsibility.
It's pretty much the same spirit that was blamed by the rioters: "I can do anything I want". Laws, civil rights and responsility are the cornerstones of democracy. The law is the law, it is in place with a reason, and should be applied to everybody. Corrupt politicians, violent policemen - they should be held accountable and punished as hashly as possible. And so should be those hooligans.
Too much attention and credit is given to a bunch of teenagers with little or no moral sense. Probably if they would have lived in a muslim country, these guys would be some of those 'nice' guys blowing up trains. Just 'having fun' and being a 'hero'...
Again, everyone should be held acountable for their acts. I hate politics and I think most of politicians are corrupt to the bone (and many of them should rot in jail), and that corporations are doing a lot of damage in this world, but that is no excuse for this kind of mayhem.

I find it absolutely incredible that such things still happen in the "civilised" Europe!
I think the Greek police and the politicians simply got scared at the reaction caused by the shooting of the teenager and forgot why they are payed for, and what they are supposed to do. They simply got... impotent.
What would the government do if this would happend in any other country, I wonder?...

And by the way, what the hell was that teenager doing, throwing Molotov cocktails at the police, if this is true?!?! And in how many countries would one hope not to be shot at while doing such a blatant act of violence?

Posted by Joe Miller December 18, 08 05:23 PM
860.

846 with all the respect I would like to remind you that nowadays the whole world suffers from the conciquences of liberalism and globalization. These consequences were underlines from the right begging but the refused to listen and now that their models of capita;ism collapsed they are asking for government intervention sth which is totally opposite with CAPITALISM. Now the want us to give our money in order for the banks, the car industries to survive...But noone will care about us again. Capitalism leads to greediness and repression. You say that in America if you work hard you can secure a happy life. Well for your information in some countries no matter how hard you work you cannot be happy and in some others you work in order to survive... eg. Africa.

Posted by Mayia December 18, 08 05:30 PM
861.

@ 840 Patriotism- Love of country; devotion to the welfare of one's country; the virtues and actions of a patriot; the passion which inspires one to serve one's country... -Webster's Dictionary

So what you are saying is that you do not love Greece? that you are not working towards the better welfare of Greece? Do not include Patriotism with your feelings of contempt for Capitalism..

Furthermore, Don't you think action by non-action would go further than just perpetuating the violence? Like 850 said... Ghandi... Martin Luther King Jr. do these names mean anything to you?

"The Murderous State must fall"? what does that even mean? how do you plan to end this murderous state? with violence and murder?... in essence you plan to end and replace "The Murderous State" with yet another Murderous State? its a perpetuating cycle furthered by violence.. do yourself a favor. change it? step out of this downward spiral of destruction and become a leader...

Posted by Danny December 18, 08 05:33 PM
862.

damianos, you either live in a parallel dimension or you deliberately refuse to see/ accept the fact that this was far beyond the usual few anarchists destroying about...
it was a sincere social uprise. the assasination was just the excuse, the trigger; the indignation has being accumulating for a long time now. open your eyes and admit that you 're also at least not satisfied with the church scandals, with the political scandals, with the situation regarding the social security, the educational system and so on and so forth.
we are experiencing genuine revolt days - take a stand!

Posted by Basilis December 18, 08 05:34 PM
863.

this is a sick display of anarchy .t he fact that a sinle police officer made a tragic mistake the rest of the country has to suffer.these morans that have no life and do not value anyone elsesfound an excuse to have their fifteen minutes of fame. the government should have the military move in and arrest these thugs that all they want to do is destroy the country.

Posted by steve December 18, 08 05:34 PM
864.

fotia stous anarxikous!

Posted by Anonymous December 18, 08 05:37 PM
865.

Ohio lyrics by Neil Young

Dedicated to Alexandros! - No More Violance People. Isolate extemism, extemists and politicians that they try to gain power betting in an ufortunate death.

Stop the vilolance now !

--------

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.

Posted by john December 18, 08 05:41 PM
866.

Why?

That's all I can say about these riots.

Why?

People are upset about the death of one teenager, so they endanger the life of thousands more. People want to stop police brutality, so they provoke the police. I don't get it.

But I do have advice for the police. loose the gas masks, they make it easy for the protesters to rationalize their actions. When their staring at a human face they'll have a much harder time screaming.

Posted by Jim December 18, 08 05:46 PM
867.

Revolution not against innocent citizens but against criminal officers & criminal political authority!

Posted by Katch December 18, 08 05:47 PM
868.

This is an expert from NY Times today:

Protesters Riot Again in Athens
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By ANTHEE CARASSAVA and MEG BORTIN
Published: December 18, 2008
ATHENS — A large but peaceful demonstration in central Athens turned violent Thursday when rioters threw rocks and firebombs at the police and tried to burn down the city’s main Christmas tree, which had just been replaced after being torched in a protest last week.

Can someone tell me how by burning down a Christmas Tree, you promote your leftist ideology? Stop the violance, think before you act. No support for extremist anywhere. Their only goal is distruction.

Posted by praveen December 18, 08 06:08 PM
869.

These Greek youths are patriots fighting against the tyrannical police that have taken over. Fuck the Police

Posted by Anonymous December 18, 08 06:27 PM
870.

Why do people paint everyone in North America with the same brush. Not all of us are spoiled, we do have our values and we do stand up for what we believe in as well. The ones standing up are small numbers compared to Europe, but with time we will achieve our goals, hopefully peacefully, since resorting to violence makes me no better than my enemy......as long as everyone does their part in trying to create, cleaner, better and corruption free tomorrow, we will succeed.

For now my thoughts are with all of you as well, be safe and don't get hurt.

Posted by Simon December 18, 08 06:34 PM
871.

To 843 Salk1: Do u live in Pluto man?? Do u think only Greece with your supposed left wing governement (what a joke) has these problems and the rest of the world prospers??? i really wonder if many ppl here have any grasp of reality around em!!!

Posted by Chris G December 18, 08 06:43 PM
872.

Here in Brazil, the police officer is corrupted and it forces, we have countless cases of deaths of innocent ones and unfortunately the society is not mobilized. We accept everything, police violence, violence of the bandits, corruption of the rulers and nothing is done by us. I am not on behalf of the violence, but my congratulations to the Greek people.

Posted by cicero antonio simoes paranhos December 18, 08 06:55 PM
873.

868 Praveen : Burning this Christmas tree is symbolic!! We cannot stand having this fake celebrating mood when ppl are distressed about the cold murder of the innocent kid and for so many other reasons.. We cannot stand having this religious symbol when we are bombarded by scandals of our church which steals our money and owns half of Greece on the expense of simple ppl. Its all a hypocrisy! why do u ppl see everything so simple and on its surface? Why do u judge ppls actions without knowing their motives??

To Korinne: Kseperna kapote kopela mou ta narkisistika kollhmata twn Ellhnwn gia to poso omorfh xwra exoume ktl ktl...H xwra tha parameinei omorfh akoma kai otanlhksoun ola auta!! H ousia twn pragmatwn einai polu vathuterh...ti na thn kanw thn omorfh xwra otan den mporw na thn xarw!! ?? Ase pou liges poleis einai pio asxhmes apo thn A8hna...Etsi thn katanthsame!! Kairos gia anoikodomhsh!!

Posted by Chris G December 18, 08 06:56 PM
874.

All these guys that protesting and writing about the way US citizens think and act wear clothes and shoes coming from USA. How r u kidding? yourselfs? When all these is over, a politician will go to your father to ask to vote for him and with exchange to get you a job in the public domain. How many of you will say no? For something to change you dont need 100 burning cars and a few broken windows. You need to change they way you think. Greek youth may have blood boiling in their veins but the majority of them have no idea about ideals and democracy. If you want a revolution start a boycott by stop buying any fu* unnecessary products i.e. playstation, i-phone etc. This is the best way to fight against capitalism,
whohas the guts to do that

Posted by Vasilis December 18, 08 07:10 PM
875.

Picture 9 and 30 show flames against policemen. Why don;t they protect themselves then, and shoot the people with covered faces, but they shoot youngsters that didn' t threaten their lives?
Could it be the riots are conveniently directed by state agency to create chaos, distracting the public focus from the imense and inumerous scandals consumming public money and confusing student protesters with hood wearing rioters?
Last year there were obvious incidents when rioters with hoods come out of the policemen's ranks and attacked protesters.
How come hoodwearing rioters never got arrested?
How come Police left all the riots go on the next two days after the killing?


Posted by Giorgos December 18, 08 07:17 PM
876.

All I can say is those folks are lucky they were not protesting in the U.S., cause they would have been murdered in the hundreds, if not thousands. As an American, I wish the police forces I deal with could be as reserved as the Greek police.

Posted by Scott Otis December 18, 08 07:40 PM
877.

Christianity is the enemy of human freedom. Merely burning down a Christmas tree is a light sentence. We can only hope a more proportional justice is soon served.

Posted by K December 18, 08 08:06 PM
878.

to 837 - burning down the center of athens certainly didn't make our country any uglier,in fact it may do the opposite - this place stinks! our national heritage you're talking about is mostly the nature, like the forests we see every summer burning, like the beautiful sea we're polluting day after day...

p.s. that was just a "silly" comment, i'm totally against the destruction of people's properties in order to protest, i only liked symbolic acts like the burnt christmas tree,i think everyone can live without it anyway...

Posted by Aris December 18, 08 08:46 PM
879.

The greeks are fasists
Macedonia for Macedonians!!!!

Posted by Dime Macedonia Skopje December 18, 08 09:23 PM
880.

808.LOL at "anarchists" throwing stones at cops while wearing nike and gap.
Posted by matt December 18, 08 01:45 PM

WELL SAID MATT
+1

Posted by An Athenian Born Woman December 18, 08 09:33 PM
881.

Check out the real take on Athens "rioting":

"Greece was supposedly “gripped” with big scary riots this week. I love that TV talk, “gripped.” Was it a firm, manly grip? I don’t think so, actually. People throw words like “riot” around pretty easily, and these were about the wimpiest excuse for urban violence I’ve ever seen."

http://exiledonline.com/greece-gripped-with-riots-what-riots/

Posted by Xox Ma December 18, 08 09:41 PM
882.

"LOL @ 827 and 827, go to school study philosophy and learn the process of reasoning. GOD! no wonder why we have governments if the majority don't think."

Pelengue/834 I've already been to school and then to university, got an engineering degree, post-graduate masters in a science topic and now I'm a PHD student in a subject that you probably don't even know it exists, I've studied logic in many forms and I've even programmed it on the computer. And I protest. I do not vandalise - if you can't tell the difference between the two then obviously you are the one who doesn't use his brain. Like many people here you're very short-sighted, brainwashed by the media and the information input that has been filtered inside your head. They want you to focus your attention on 2 burning cars and some smashed up windows and ignore the bigger problem and it's working, you are yourself a victim just like us all. I don't endorse violence but I prefer this type of violent rioting to plain apathy thinking "oh well if they say it they they must be right". Why do I protest? Because despite my qualifications and the difficult path I have chosen I don't get any funding whatsoever for my research, zero. In a "normal" western country the government has education and research as a top prioty, here the limited money the have for us is always stolen by those on high seats. Getting a part time job related to my field of studies is practically impossible without the right connections so I'm forced to slave myself in order to a ridiculously low salary (less than 10 euros/hour) and lead a life of debts. This is why I protest and I'm sure every Greek protester out there will have a personal reason to feel unhappy and wronged because of the way things have been for so long now. But above all, we're united by sorrow for the death of an innocent helpless CHILD that could have been our brother, our son, ourselves at a younger age, Alexis Grigoropoulos, RIP.

Posted by Politis December 18, 08 10:28 PM
883.

880 what the hell would you find acceptable for the protesters to wear?? Imitation gap and nike? Uknown brands? Rugs? Bathing suits? Bunny costumes? Damn I wonder how many more retarded comments am I gonna read on this blog. Wake up and smell the roses people, the majority of the rioters are regular people not "anarchists".

The fact is that the majority of the world is stupid. This is why we get people voting for Bushes. This is why we get cops shooting at 15 year olds. This is why we get people who think that there's nothing wrong with that.

Posted by Athenean December 18, 08 10:41 PM
884.

OK my last comment wasn't meant for Pelengue who is obviously on the same line of thinking as I am, but anyway it was meant for the countless of posters who keep asking "why? why? what good is it? yadda yadda yadda". Sorry pelengue, misunderstanding.

Posted by Politis December 18, 08 10:46 PM
885.

879 god...read a freaking foreign book on history before you talk...PLEASE

Posted by George December 18, 08 10:47 PM
886.

What a bunch of good-for-nothing hooligans. Kids these days have no respect, I tell you. No respect. And what's this they said about them putting those poor guards in jail for shooting that kid? Sheesh, what's the world coming to? The kids were throwing firebombs at them and the guards fired back. That's what they're supposed to do when they are in the face of deadly force, and I would say a firebomb can be considered deadly force.
And so what does the rambunctious youth of Athens find out when hear about this on the news? That not only are the police not allowed to do anything if you throw firebombs at them, but that they will be jailed if they do. Geeze, and you wonder how shit like this gets started.

Posted by RyleyNickel December 18, 08 10:53 PM
887.

*Nothing ever burns down by itself / Every fire needs a little bit of help*

Posted by Will December 18, 08 11:08 PM
888.

Funniest comment -ever- is #168!

Posted by Athenean December 18, 08 11:19 PM
889.

What is happening to our ONCE beautiful nation! What has happened to the once brilliant and innovative race that we Greeks once were! All I see is anger and hatred that comes through frustration? drugs? alcohol? .Any form of reason or excuse that can be seen as an injustice?
As a Greek from the other side of the world what I see happening in my country despairs me! Have we become that detached that we now turn on each other - one Greek to another? We all need to turn to each other and offer help and assistance - not hatred- in order.to make changes for the majority of teh people!

Posted by Ioanna December 18, 08 11:45 PM
890.

For those that think that real rebellion and insurrection of this kind does not solve anything, I suggest learning about history. Such riots have undeniable strong influence in the direction society goes.

Think about WTO, IMF, G8. Since the Battle for Seattle and other anti-summit riots, these organizations have lost significant influence, their legitimacy has been increasingly challenged, they were forced to change their rethoric, to invoke a fight against global poverty; G8 is mutating into the G20...

It may not be a revolution, but it's a robust political force. People deny that fact, while believing in illusions a nature such as: "If you want a revolution, get up tomorrow morning and go to your schools and work places."

I don't think so. For all the condescendence that the well behaving citizens express against these kids - it seems to me that these kids understand how society works better them all the timid grown-ups. I'm sure that because of such riots, police abuse in Greece will diminish. While countries where the populace does not revolt like that, police brutality will continue. Just like America's freedom was conquered by an almost barbarian attitude of resistance against British authority - learn your history, folks.

"A few people who take some creative initiative (think of the first civil rights sit-ins) may ultimately have a far greater effect than if they had put their energy into campaigning for lesser-evil politicians. At best, legislators rarely do more than what they have been forced to do by popular movements. A conservative regime under pressure from independent radical movements often concedes more than a liberal regime that knows it can count on radical support. (The Vietnam war, for example, was not ended by electing antiwar politicians, but because there was so much pressure from so many different directions that the prowar president Nixon was forced to withdraw.)"

Posted by Diogo December 18, 08 11:54 PM
891.

Resolve violent people with violence. Fight fire with fire. Set the protesters ablaze. What's next on the mayor's list.

Posted by el-chamuco December 19, 08 12:56 AM
892.

WE LAUGH AT YOU WITH OUR FISTS HIGH AND OUR EYES CRYING...
WE DESTROY THE PRESENT BECAUSE WE BUILD THE FUTURE.
Warcry of the protestors of the 2008 Greek Riots.

@866: Did you not read the comment at the beginning at the page? Alexander's death appears to have been a catalyst, unleashing widespread Greek anger towards many issues - police mistreatment of protesters, unwelcome education reforms, economic stagnation, government corruption and more. Corrupt governments, police brutality, corporate greed and iresponsibility, lack of concern for the future generations is something most people have experienced first hand one way or another.READ and know the TRUE facts before saying what comes to your mind. Ignorance is much worse that idiocy.

Posted by Supporter of the Protestors December 19, 08 12:59 AM
893.

WE LAUGH AT YOU WITH OUR FISTS HIGH AND OUR EYES CRYING...
WE DESTROY THE PRESENT BECAUSE WE BUILD THE FUTURE.
Warcry of the protestors of the 2008 Greek Riots.

“We don’t forget, we don’t forgive” - day of international action against state murders, 20.12.2008

Today (Friday), the assembly of the occupied Athens Polytechnic decided to make a callout for European and global-wide actions of resistance in the memory of all assassinated youth, migrants and all those who were struggling against the lackeys of the state. Carlo Juliani; the French suburb youths; Alexandros Grigoropoulos and the countless others, all around the world. Our lives do not belong to the states and their assassins! The memory of the assassinated brothers and sisters, friends and comrades stays alive through our struggles! We do not forget our brothers and sisters, we do not forgive their murderers. Please translate and spread around this message for a common day of coordinated actions of resistance in as many places around the world as possible.

Posted by Supporter of the protestors December 19, 08 02:12 AM
894.

the urge to destroy is a creative impulse

Posted by nope December 19, 08 02:20 AM
895.

NO JUSTICE,NO PEACE...ANARCHY ALL OVER THE WORLD...NEOS KOSMOS GATE 13

Posted by NK December 19, 08 02:29 AM
896.

Mayia.

My comment about the shooting apparently being an accident does not come from the statements made by the lawyer for the accused, but from the latest news reports about the initial findings of the autopsy and ballistic forensics. It does appear that the bullet hit something else first and the entry wound (from up to down), point to a ricochet.

“Στο πόρισμα καταγράφεται ότι η σφαίρα προσέκρουσε σε σκληρή επιφάνεια. Αναφέρεται χαρακτηριστικά σε «πρόσκρουση της βολίδας σε σκληρή - ανένδοτη επιφάνεια με το πλαϊνό τμήμα της και στη συνέχεια εποστρακισμού της (εκτροπής της) από την επιφάνεια αυτή».

Παράλληλα, από τη χημική ανάλυση της σφαίρας προέκυψε ότι φέρει ίχνη διοξειδίου πυριτίου που χρησιμοποιείται στη βιομηχανία γυαλιού και πυριτικών τούβλων. Χρησιμοποιείται επίσης σε επιστημονικά οπτικά όργανα.”

I have very little trust in the so called ‘eyewitness reports’ as these are notoriously unreliable in general and especially coming from people that frequent that area and have a predisposition to blame the police in every type of incident of this nature.

The final forensic report should be published soon and IF it is confirmed that the shooting was an accident, I wonder if you will accept this as the truth, the ‘last word’ and change your tune. I suspect not, because YOU WANT this to be seen as a cold-blooded murder to justify all the havoc and stoke the ‘revolution’.

I will join your ‘revolution’ IF it shows the policeman shot ‘straight at his heart’.

Posted by Damianos December 19, 08 02:49 AM
897.

u guys need to chill

Posted by john q December 19, 08 02:55 AM
898.

i couldn't have possibly read all the previous comments, but one thing is for sure: what started as a protest against police violence and brutality, against government incompetence and indifference, ended in irrational violence that favours only political parties / the government because it shifts focus from the financial and economical scandals and the voting for the 2009 budget of the state - and at the same time the opposition because it gives them an opportunity to blame the government for almost... everything.
so, forget about riots and anarchists and all that crap / students rebel because its xmas and they prolong their vacations, the riots are guided by media and politicians and the only victim in this case is the kid that died. end of story.

xmas

Posted by osama bet laden December 19, 08 03:45 AM
899.

These riots have nothing to do with 15 & 16 year old students protesting for better public schools, better education, better
future possibilities - Their target is the goverment

There are sms messages organizing people to act, send a few hours after the boy's death by the sosialist oposition party
There are strong suspicions that the communist party, which has a strong past in organizing protestations might have a very
active role in this and
There is also evidence that illegal immigrants found a chance to attack, destroy and steal from stores and then set fires to
stores to cover their actions

Reporters and Journalists act as "proffesionals" and seem to judge and decide about everything using their power to turn the
public opinion to whatever way is conveniant for their "bosses"

Citizens protest because the police is not protecting their stores and cars and homes but when an arrest is made , they
protest again and ask the arresting officers to free the person they arrested !!!!!


My question is: where the hell are the parents of all these children and why nobody is asking this question in public??

Because my personal opinion is that if they (the parents) believed in what the students are protesting for they should be out
in the streets, with them ...
anf if not, they should lock their children home and forbid them to participate ...

I am suspecting that what really is happening is that they are hiding behind their children backs, using them as shields and
allowing the politic parties to take advantage of their actions ... and I find that this is criminally vulgar

Children should not be made to fight adult fights - They are supposed to be protected and loved and nurtured


People who started this do not love their country.
They present themselves as patiots but they are everything but
Their actions are not Democratic and they are not against the authorities - They are against their fellow citizens

(I live in Athnens - Greece)

Posted by estartu December 19, 08 04:00 AM
900.

Victory to the Greek youth!!!
Keep it up. No compromise.
The Greek system is corrupt, rusty and outdated. Smash it.

Posted by bab December 19, 08 04:05 AM
901.

TO THE IGNORANT 802 & 797 :
I am sure that u live in a "perfect" European country, perhaps Switzerland or Luxembourg.. Either that, or u are a Greek that studied in England, and your mentality now is that "everything works better in England"
WAKE UP!! THE WORLD IS NOT SO "PERFECT" AS U THINK. How can Greeks find jobs when there aren't any? U say if they are not happy they can go to another country? IS THAT THE SOLUTION??So leave Greece back to rot by Politicians and sick minds?UR MIND IS SICK IF U HAVEN'T REALIZED HOW SERIOUS THE SITUATION IS! (PS. "not a saint" ? Who the F**k are you?)

Posted by Stacey V. December 19, 08 04:07 AM
902.

De Tocqueville said the people will get the government they deserve; we have the same problem in the U.S. If these people want a better future for their country, they’ll need to come up with a nobler idea than burning and looting. It’s difficult, but Gandhi and Martin Luther King applied this formula, and with time achieved incredible results.

Posted by Steve Jasper December 19, 08 04:17 AM
903.

Why these people do not go to the region of Athens that reach people live and destroy their properties?Instead they destroy poor people properties.They are politicaly manipulated and financed

Posted by ungry citizen December 19, 08 04:20 AM
904.

Support the revolution...
Keep the flame burning...
Resist...
Fight for your rights....
879, get a life u ignorant pr....ck, MACEDONIA IS GREEK!!!

Posted by Steven December 19, 08 04:22 AM
905.

I was once an american citizen too! now I am now a Greek citizen,since i live here! i respect your opinion's! but it's obvious that you have absolutely no idea what is going on in this country!!!(not all of you)...In the country that the only true value is corruption and the politician's steal from the people without even trying to hide it,it was a matter of time before the people get out of hand! poor alexandros was only the excuse!
ps1:the most buildings burned were bank's and multiinternational companies!(i don't think there going to pay anything right..?
ps2 in every revolution there is collateral damage!
ps3 greece must be build from scratch!!

Posted by JpJ December 19, 08 04:40 AM
906.

These riots are only the beginning. When you have young people who view no future ahead of them in a wordlwide economic calamity, you have REVOLUTIONS, not just riots. Its not coincidence that riots are beginning in multiple countries. If Iceland, a fairly small country with predominantly docile white culture can break out in riots over economic collapse, so can nations like Greece. I think the readers are in for a big surprise in 2009 when riots break out in the major cities of the US.

Posted by MAP December 19, 08 04:46 AM
907.

NO COMMENTS, ONE PHOTO ...1000 WORDS.. WE LOST THE METER.. WE LOST ETHIC..WE LOST.. OUR IDENTITY.

Posted by A.D.T December 19, 08 04:46 AM
908.

The problem of all the so called western societies is apathy. We are all taught this through a very long process; we are all in a state of false nirvana, letting governments act on our behalf for their well being and for the well being of multinationals and definitely not people.
The most successful in this regard is the US government; most Americans are literally speaking, in a state of CONSTANT SLEEP. I am very pleasantly surprised that not all of them are in deep sleep and really thank everybody in here who are supporting the movement of Greek children against a shelf imploding and collapsing global society and economy.
These kids are fighting for their dignity and for a better future; the killing of Alexadros was only the trigger and not the cause. I really wish more free teen spirit was existent to the western and European societies who are slowly dying a painless death of apathy buried in playstation and MTV.
Hundreds of kids are killed everyday by police worldwide, even in US, if every time a kid was killed a riot followed, then I am sure that next time even fascist governments would give a second thought.
I was against violence of any kind, I am now convinced that without a fight you cannot gain anything against today’s governments, especially as a simple citizen and more if you are a kid living in a “matrix like” society.
I am a 38 years old Greek who is working for a US multinational and I am very disappointed and embarrassed because my generation was the first of its kind, buried in false, or no targets, with no ideology besides money and over consumption, we never stood against anybody all these years and this is the outcome, a dying global economy, a dying society, a, a dying environment, a dying humanity, a dying planet.

WAKE UP MORONS!

I am thanking all the kids who are fighting for their rights and their future survival, a fight that my generation failed miserably to perform.

Posted by A dissapointed citizen of the world December 19, 08 04:57 AM
909.

Good work greek students...!!!! F*** OFF Greek government!!!!! Hold you in from Czech republic, fight!

Posted by Georg December 19, 08 05:07 AM
910.

Capitalism is getting harder and harder.
Corporations and governors are pulling us back to the middleages.
We have to make them realize that we are not going to accept that.
Wake up and do something for your future.
Support the youth.
Spread resistance all over the world.

Posted by Platon December 19, 08 05:24 AM
911.

879 everyone all over the world knows that the macedonians greek .Even your partner americans in the movie of hollywood ALEXANDER THE GREAT apear the alexander as greek so... stop reading the propagandist skopian books ... Alexander is a GREEK name and means the leader of the mans macedonia is a GREEK word and means the land of the talls mans the macedonians take part in the olympic games where only greeks can take part ,they was believe in the 12 GREEK gods , the home of the 12 greek gods the mount olympos was in macedonia in the city of katerini , macedonians speak greeks write greeks they was have greek education , every ancient hystorian say that was greek rage AND FOR THE END WHEN ALEXANDER ÂÅÁÔ ÔÇÅ PERSIAN EMPIRE WITH THE CO OPERATION OF EVERY GREEK RAGE EXCEPT SPARTA AND SEND THE FIRST LOOTS TO ATHENS OVER THE LOOTS WRITE "LOOTS FROM EVERY GREEK EXCEPT SPARTANS" ... you are too small to talk about fascism in greece .. greece have democracy from 3000 years and one of the most powerfull antifascist youth in the world

Posted by che guevara December 19, 08 05:28 AM
912.

Nothing is over, thousands took the streets again!

Thursday (12/18): reports from Greece
Nothing is over, thousands took the streets again!

This morning it was made known that another 16 year old pupil was shot last night in Athens. There was no demonstration at that point, the boy was in a public space with some schoolmates and were discussing about further student mobilization in their school, in Peristeri. Then one shot hit the kid in the hand. He was transferred to the hospital and went throw surgery today and he is doing well. When his friends went back, a few minutes later, to search for the calyx, there was a second shot. The police, immediately claimed that the shots were fired by an air-gun and denied any involvement. Later the doctors at the hospital contradicted the police report saying that the kid was shot with a firegun. The doctors also said that the shot was made from a big distance and that's why the bullet didn't go throw his hand and into his body. In such a distance it's impossible to aim, especially at night, which means that whoever shot, was aiming the group of kids in general. It was a matter of luck that the bullet hit the student in the hand and not in the (or any of the other kids) head or heart! It is, at least, weird that no cops (according to the police) were nearby when most (if not all) of the schools in Athens are closely surveillanced by the police since the beginning of the riots.
In the afternoon there was a demonstration in the area, were pupils, students, residents and parents attended. It is worth mentioning that members of the greek “communist” party (KKE, a Stalinist bureaucratic party which is unpopular with the leftists and anarchists because of its methods and its collaborations with the government and the police) took part too. The father of the kid is a member of the party. KKE from day 1 has been accusing the demonstrators as provocateurs and extremists. This had been the party's stand for decades now and it's methods include giving other protesters to the police and accusing everyone as “people-enemies” but its members.

At around 1.30pm the big demonstration in downtown Athens started and thousands of people took part. When it reached the parliament building, some protesters “showered” the deployed riot squads with red paint and fought them with sticks and later started throwing objects at them. The police soon started firing tear and asphyxiating gas, some of which have never been used before in Greece. The people started throwing rocks and some molotov cocktails and soon enough the city center felt like a gas chamber from all the gas fired by the cops. The riot squads started hunting people and moving them towards the occupied universities. When some protesters tried to set alight the new christmas tree in Sintagma square, a riot squad deployed around it to protect it! The protesters gathered at the law school and at Propylea, where the riots continued. The riot squads kept throwing gas. Near the law school one money transfer van was burned and flaming barricades were created to keep away the cops and also for protection from the gas. Owners of the nearby shops were trying to turn the cops away, cause their presence there was triggering more fighting.
The police once again followed the plan “throw gas, beat up people and arrest anybody”. Several people were detained and at least 3 arrests were made. One of the people detained was a 15 year old pupil who was just filming the riot cops with his phone. When reporters and passersby confronted the cops for the arrest, they threatened them too. Some people got detained while they were just looking the fights outside the law school.
Photos of the demonstration: http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=950107
Photos of the fights: http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=949951
more photos of fights: http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=950002
and then some more: http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=950016
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=950384
Riot cops under the christmas tree, worst present ever, someone was really bad this year: http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=949851
Videos: http://www.in.gr/video/default.aspx?videoID=77044
http://www.skai.gr/master_avod.php?id=104540

In the afternoon there was a demonstration in solidarity with the migrants and even though the police presence was heavy, there was no fighting.

In Thessaloniki: due to the bad weather and the uncertainty by many if the demonstration will take place or not, the crowds were smaller than expected but they demonstrated. In the evening the benefit/solidarity show gathered around 6000 people! In the small hours of Tuesday morning, a bank was attacked.

In Patras, after the planned demonstration, the trade union building was occupied.
Photos from the occupied trade union building: http://patras.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=3450#3455
Photos and videos of yesterday's actions against Alexis Kougias in Patras: http://patras.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=3432

More radio stations were occupied today: 2 in Thessaloniki, 1 in Sparta and 1 in Tripoli.

In other cities. Gatherings or demonstrations took place in Corfu, Larissa, Chania and probably more.

The results of the ballistic testing came out today (sort of). The media are saying that the report says that it's still not completely clear what happened. It is said that the bullet was fired aiming close to the ground (in contradiction to the cop stating that he fired in the air). There is also evidence that the bullet hit on something before it reached Alexis. They are now saying that they need to examine the crime scene to find where the bullet hit. However, there are still eyewitnesses which have testified that the cop fired aiming towards the young boy.

The building of GSEE in Athens is still occupied.
Two more communiques by the occupants of GSEE building: http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=949446

We destroy the present because we come from the future. A communique by the occupied ASSOE: http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=949735

Posted by barricada December 19, 08 05:29 AM
913.

the only thing the government and their friends in america and europe are afraid of is the ORGANIZED RESISTANCE in greece. thats why the government and the media "supports" anarchists and hooligans. they are very easy to handle and to be used. governments number one ENEMY is the COMUNIST PARTY. no one else in fact.

Posted by Christian Klar December 19, 08 05:31 AM
914.

action brings reaction....things must at last change..this is not a democracy...if there are people in this world that really beleive that their country is democratic, try to wake up....1%of earth population owns 80% of wealth...millions of people die,in order to make this 1%wealthier.....
there are many rotten things here in Greece,including the most of our police, the most of our politics, the most of "our" religion, the most of our education, the most of everything....is the rest of the world so different??
It's not just a group of fools who try to destroy our cities and country as seen in the media....thousands of people demonstrate every day...more would come if not feared by police brutality....

Posted by Themistoklis December 19, 08 05:36 AM
915.

the usa democracy.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE&NR=1

Greeks don't fight for this kind of "democracy".
If the elections can change the situation of each country then will be illegal.

Wake up!! It's already late..but he have a hope..

Posted by CPM December 19, 08 05:47 AM
916.

Dear sirs

theese pictures show how at the bottom end, people react exactly as animals with bad behaviour. They are illustrating the hellenic mandess, reason for which i left my own country 24 years ago !!!
It's very difficult for me to support nonsence.
How many protesters asked if there were any industrial planification in the country they live on ?
How many of them asked for doctors who respecting the outh to Hypocrate do not accept the traditional "fakelaki" ?
How many of them say to themselves that paying taxes the money returns to them, regardles what the others do, or bad politicians may spend ?
Does the hellenic people know that the state has no incomes ?
How many of them look policemen as their protectors more than their opponents, or the dummies on whitch one can shoot on, or burn them ?

I think that the people who really try to improove the Hellenic reality were much more occupied working than playing modern guerilla in the streets !!!!
It was always like that and it will not change.

Poor Hellas you eat your own children, and from time to time they intend on showing their anger, fear and disappointment. It's a pitty they did not changed !!!

Everyone is exchanging points of view on this page in english, not in hellenic ? !!!

Posted by Constantin FABRIKEZIS December 19, 08 05:56 AM
917.

to 879
call your nation as you like it wont exist in a couple of months anyway...
due to economic slump you will beg to sell yourselfs to russians for a penny.
By the way this a discussion is on riots in greece if you have the min iq to understand...

Posted by theo December 19, 08 05:57 AM
918.

Atleast in Greece the government fears the people. Not so, I'm afraid, in the US.

Posted by Michael Newell December 19, 08 05:58 AM
919.

@827 Politis

Well it is almost sure that we are going for a civil war. We know both (as "Greeks") that many people here in Greece have no greek consciousness and I mean a big part of the SYRIZA member sub-parties (synistoses) and a lot of oppressed (by the economic pressure and unemployment) immigrants (illegal or not). To tell you the truth, I prefer the dismantle of Greece as we know it now and the creation of 2 or 3 smaller countries in which each different cultural-social-or whatever subgroup of Greeks (or immigrants) would feet better without causing a problem to each other. I am against a violent civil war but I would like this to be a process as smooth as possible

Posted by fg December 19, 08 06:16 AM
920.

In Romania, the students stand with their shirts open in front of guns. Many were shot, but they stand still and won the soldiers harts. We had the army on our side when we overthrew the communist regime. But our heroes are those that has been shot, not those that had set fire. Throwing cocktails from an unseen position, with your face covered, it is an act of cowardness, not of courage.

Posted by Victor Matei December 19, 08 06:16 AM
921.

@879
Did Alexander the Great speak a bulgarian dialect????

Posted by fg December 19, 08 06:17 AM
922.

863 - Steve, I don't know where you live but you obviously don't live in Greece. The police didn't make just a mistake. Such mistakes have been happening very often here. They just don't take such publicity because it's "only" the 2nd time the victim is a kid and they didn't cause such rioting in the past.

To everybody who says "go back to work or school" I only have that to say: my being an excellent student and my not voting for this government for the last 12 years has done nothing to change the situation. My work and financial life is fine and I would have no reason to complaint, except that I care. I care about where I will grow my children and this is not the right place. Don't get me wront I love Greece and that's why I don't want to leave it for the ones who want to take advantage of it and give nothing back. If someone was to leave, it should be them (corrupted politicians and the church), not the rest of us.

Greece has a long history of revolution and the last one was 35 years ago against an oppressive govenment. What that says is that when you want freedom and ideals you can't have them watching TV from your couch. You have to fight for them. I'm not saying that current rioting is revolution. But it does reflect the people's anger and feelings. It;s just that again some people found the opportunity to use this anger to their benefit.
Still, I'm happier with what has happened because at least it woke people up, than if we were just watching TV and saying that again a corrupted policeman shot at an innocent and got away with it.

Posted by MB December 19, 08 06:18 AM
923.

The only thing that I can say, is that after all these things that are happening (economic crisis, riots over Greece), all these rich and capitalist people will open their eyes and see the arrogance in which they live. 'Fear' prevent people from being arrogant, underestimating other human beings, beings which didn't have the luxury to get born by rich parents.

Posted by vassilis December 19, 08 06:24 AM
924.

The man on Picture Number 18 looks like an albanian or arab.

Posted by fg December 19, 08 06:33 AM
925.

Anarchy is never dead...

Posted by AnArchy in turkey December 19, 08 06:51 AM
926.

what are you people talking about? at least they fight for something with the right or wrong way.
They don't surfing on the internet all the time, they don't became foolish and non-willing persons by X-box, PS etc.
They don't elect someone who will send soldiers to Iraq and people will die
They don't spend their free time on Macdonald's to get fattier
They know that democracy is the freedom of arguing, of expression, of discussing...
It¢s different country and culture. May it¢s not the best country for education, for health system, for eco – behavior but at least they are not cows in a spread

Posted by TONY December 19, 08 06:52 AM
927.

it is right to revolt!

long live the peoples strungle!

Posted by Greek(m) December 19, 08 07:17 AM
928.

This was not the only case around...
I was borned in Greece and lived here, but I'm not proud of my country. The government is totally corrupted, the cops just intimidate and kill citizens (as if they were files) but don't do a shit about criminals... And these hooligans just make it even worse. Yes, they are supressed people, who have to live with a basic salary, around 650 euros, when the cost to live by yourself is around 1000 euros per month. We get nothing at all... we study our whole lives, take so many degrees... but still we get nothing! I hate cops, I hate my government... and most of all I hate those hooligans! Cause there were so many people who just wanted to go to a strike and complain about that murder, but peacefully. Hooligans and people who were paid from cops got among them and destroyed the strike. Both them and cops should just die... Once I get the chance, I'll just live Thessaloniki, I'll just leave Greece (Hellas, for those who don't know) - there are so many young people like me who just wish the same... totally disappointed...

Posted by Ellinas December 19, 08 07:24 AM
929.

To 914: Oh, my God!!!!! I am one of the people that tries to improve Hellenic reality peacefully. I work hard, pay taxes and still think. And that’s why I did protest in the streets (like politis said, I demonstrated not damaged). Because my huge taxes go to some people’s pockets, I have to pay for social benefits while the church and politicians own more than half Greece and get away with everything again and again.
You asked why we don’t look at policemen as protectors… Because they aren’t. The majority of them are some poor, low educated blokes who got a gun and think that this gives them power! They mishandle everyone they get their hands on and that’s among the reasons Greece gets fined by the EU on civil rights.
Stop saying big nice words when you’re really not doing anything to improve the life of other people. At least recognize that something needs to be done, and start doing it.
BTW, everyone here writes in English to give the chance to people from other countries to participate, so stop being smart about it.


Posted by MB December 19, 08 07:36 AM
930.

People learn history first and then talk about the greek and the italian people!!!
If it werent for those people Democracy wouldnt exist!!!

Thank God I live in Greece and I have the right to protest and tell my opinion freely..

You are all saying stupid greeks we only hurt our land by destroying it etc. etc., so the same stands for french, italians, englishmen and australians???

Moreover all the buildings and shops which were destroyed had an obligate insurance policy , so most of them did big bucks.

And why stand apart from the problem and why yelling ahhhh the destroyed my shop bla bla , when the goverment f***s its people for the last 20 years.

Next time you come for summer holidays in Greece be careful because if we will see stupid tourists doing blowjobs on every corner, F***ing on every corner, pissing wherever they want and destroying whatever will get in their way because of their lust for Alcohol we greeks will kick their Asses and they should these discusting things in their Land.

Cheers

Posted by da greek December 19, 08 07:54 AM
931.

During the presidency of current greek prime minister K.Karamanlis there have been given to publicity more than 8 serious scandals that some have lead to crisis. Specifically, when K.Karamanlis announced the agreement and alliance with Russia there has been a scandal published every two-three months resalting to civil disapointment. All scandals K.Karamanlis was accused of started before 2001 when the political party named PASOK was in governing under prime minister K.Simitis.
The civil outburst was a result of all the corruption and scandals given to publicity (because if there was no publicity, no one would know about them and nothing would have changed).
And all scandals were gradually publiced by the time the Greek-Russian alliance was announced.
Condoleezza Rice in an old statement when talking about G.Papandreou (rival of K.Karamanlis and current leader of Pasok) said that: "G.Papandreou is OUR boy"
It is obvious that US and specifically C.I.A. are trying to throw current president K.Karamalis out of goverment and replace him with "their boy" G.Papandreou. And how are they doing it? Simply by publicing the scandals started by Pasok and continued by Nea Dimokratia ( the political party in which K.Karamanlis is leader).
I recently heard by US media tha Greece has a unstable dimocracy. I can only assume that the dudes who said that do realy heavy drags.
Would anyone in US dear to protest like in Greece?
I doubt. Why?
Because the SWAT and the army would kill anyone!! Just like China in 1989 at Tien an men in Beijing. Because censorship is everywhere in the US. Because people didnt know what was happening in Iraq unitl recently.
But the sad thing is that US gets to be blamed for decitions made by Jews. People have nothing to do with that. It's political games.
US is starting to fall apart. It is common among politicians (why dont they tell people?) that Iraq will join Iran as soon as US troops leave the area. Russia gets stronger and stronger. Less ans less people use petrol. The pimp (US) has less income from OPEC.
What's next ???

Posted by A.I. December 19, 08 07:58 AM
932.

To 898 - osama bet laden: it's vey convenient to believe so because that means that you don't have to do anything right? You can just sit back and enjoy your life because "kids are stupid or they only care about their holidays and people demonstrate because some political parties are misleading them". I wonder what we would all do if we had dictatorship tomorrow...

Posted by MB December 19, 08 08:01 AM
933.

Dear Greek posters:

Please stop quoting Neil Young, and referring to the Boston Tea Party and other American history. We are not the answer for your country's current idiotic behavior in the streets.

Posted by Jeff F December 19, 08 08:03 AM
934.

@922 : You comment as a racist!

Posted by GDB December 19, 08 08:40 AM
935.

Well i have something to say...
Here in Greece we don't need an opinion from someone who is happy when his government throws bombs and kills people just for petrol (Iraq, Afghanistan)..
How can you criticise the use of violence??
You are free to speak and that's ok...but who cares about what you say??

Posted by justaman December 19, 08 08:41 AM
936.

"Christianity is the enemy of human freedom. "

A suggestion... dont speak about things you dont know / understand.

Posted by DreamTraveler December 19, 08 08:45 AM
937.

why???

Posted by hoon December 19, 08 08:55 AM
938.

kai gamo ta mounia einai h tupisa sthn ebdomh fotografia ! jerei kaneis to e-mail ths ? ta exei me kanena ? fenetai kai koritsi gia spiti, oxi tipota allo ...

Posted by light side December 19, 08 09:04 AM
939.

By far the better photo is number 17, when an "anarchist" wearing 200 Euros ski glasses, 150 Euros shoes and jacket-trousers costing around 300-400 Euros, demostrates for a "better tommorow" an for "the 700 monthly wages generation".
I must point that after the funeral of young Alexander, the riots continued (lesser in numbers) with main pollitical issues and NOT for the death of the youngster.
We laugh with all these here in Greece...

Posted by Athenian Citizen December 19, 08 09:12 AM
940.

to 912: how old are you?
The "communist party" does not exist anymore.
It's time for "people's party"..
So lets partyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Posted by from Athens with love December 19, 08 09:24 AM
941.

Just a short comment: We do not have a left or Socialist government in Greece anymore. A right wing government which is in favour of less government and a free market has been elected twice in the last 5 years.
Did it change anything?

Posted by A Greek person December 19, 08 09:51 AM
942.

879 oh my God you are so out of topic...... you should take seriously the warnings of 915!!!!!

Posted by lalou December 19, 08 09:58 AM
943.

843 Wait New Deomocracy is "leftwing" (indeed the last "leftwing" goverment in europe)? By what definition exactly? Either you are living on another planet than the rest of us or you really need to check your facts.

Posted by Kim December 19, 08 10:02 AM
944.

Dear Kibby (# 586)

Thanks for your understanding and good will. There has to be understanding and good will among people in order to communicate. This has to be done not only between people of other countries but mostly between us greeks.
To greeks: I would propose the creation of a blog, a site in the internet that everybody could participate and express opinions of what to do to change the things we can't stand anymore. This has to be spread everywhere to anyone we know. And until then, the ones that can vote, vote against mediocracy of the political system, give a blank vote (lefki psifos) to those who believe we are apathetic, that is the whole political system, all parties.
And if we/you as protesters need to show violence -which I don't applause- do it against public buildings not against people's private properties. We won't find our right that way. At the other hand, I think that the violent acts are getting done by people who want to mislead public opinion against protesters..

Dear Kibby. I keep reading comments from foreigners urging greeks to change their government if not satisfied. But that's exactly our problem.. The 2 biggest parties that exchange places every 4 or 8 years as government (liberal and socialist, almost the same in practice) do nothing than keeping the same antipopular and corrupt practice. The other small parties, communistic, extreme -right, ecologists, etc have no power at all but most important have no idea (of modern politics) at all and they are not a solution.
So, you see us desperate. We act in despair because there is no way out.
What we need, and maybe other nations with same feelings need, is revolutionary, realistic ideas and practice. Not terroristic, not violent but revolutionary. People come together through internet, think and act. It may take time but it's the only way I see right know. We have the medium to come close, we need the will to really change things.

Posted by Marian-Greece December 19, 08 10:41 AM
945.

to 850: India splitted into two states (a muslim and a hindu one), religious hate and fanatism arose, the sect system remain untouched, poor people became poorer, India lost the chance to transform into a united, big, strong, multi-religious and real democratic state. That's Ghadi's "achievments".

Posted by Giannis December 19, 08 10:52 AM
946.

Let's build a new democracy, right from the very beginning, coz the one we 've got now... sucks!

Posted by Stella December 19, 08 10:53 AM
947.

Well the problem is democracy.... In the names of democracy the biggest crimes have been done.
I observe the events happening in the center of Athens and I am ashamed of living in this country. We were given one of the best parts , we were privelleged and the only thing we can do is find ways to destroy it.
No one can support a fatal accident or murder (this is still not confirmed what exactly happened) of 15year old by a policeman. Even if it was a cold blood shooting the rest of the events are completely unfustified. Those are criminal acts and should have the same prosecution as the two policemen.

Posted by JK December 19, 08 11:01 AM
948.

Some basic facts: 1. In the last two decades, the rich have become enormously richer, and the middle class and poor have become poorer. The facts are out there, this is in terms of REAL INCOME. Taking into account inflation, wages, etc. 2. Gov't, civic, corporate (media as well) institutions inevitably protect the status quo (i.e. the further enrichment of the rich). 3. Read this to understand how the riots and civil disturbances start: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/dec2008/gree-d19.shtml. People can't peacefully assmble. The US constitution safeguards this right but it would be too easy for police to take it away by provoking violence, as in Seattle.

3

Posted by Dan Asta December 19, 08 11:05 AM
949.

I can only speak of averages, of course, as any observation will have a counter example. In my opinion, this is a result of too many people been brainwashed into believing that they are entitled to free goods in life. They turn lazy and totally unprepaired for real work and creation of anything of value to others. Greece has been infested with this mentality over the last few decades. There are way too many pubic servants, there are way too many cafes and there is way too little self respect and respect for each other. When the Anarchists are allowed to paint their symbols on ancient marbles, when the misguided are allowed to "invade" the Acropolis and hang up their political symbols there, Greece's spirit is violated.

On average and in my opinion again, these riots were instigated as an attempt of those who have very little to show for to be noticed and declare their existence. I don't believe (and hope) half of those who were carried away and participated in this destruction will truly feel proud of their actions 15 years from now.

What we need as a Nation is to wake up and, in a measured way, better balance our our freedoms with those of others and, for crying out loud, let's create something of value people. Our Nation has stopped working and creating. We still use the word "douleia" for work.

Posted by Nikos December 19, 08 11:14 AM
950.

Once again we see why America should dominate the world, to bring peace and order. God bless the USA, the most superior form of culture.

Posted by Average American Male December 19, 08 11:22 AM
951.

those photos are amazing

Posted by Cath December 19, 08 11:29 AM
952.

876 You must be living in a video game you play instead of reality. You can't be serious. We in America have issues with our leadership, and protest or no. But, we are not plowed down by gunfire as you stated.

Posted by laura December 19, 08 11:37 AM
953.

According to #939, each rose offered to a policeman cost 99 Euros.

In the future, the protesters would be better off going out nude. What wimps, they actually wear clothes to the protests!

Posted by Dan Asta December 19, 08 11:42 AM
954.

comment 340 is the best

Posted by Anonymous December 19, 08 11:44 AM
955.

As the rest of the world burns...

keep praying for peace

Posted by justin December 19, 08 11:50 AM
956.

Shame,shame,shame on greek government to have a war with its own children!

Posted by Margarita Koutsoukou December 19, 08 11:53 AM
957.

Something else which wasnt told , if the protesters are worried about their future they should stick their butts to their school chair and try to get some education. They protest about their limited education and still they are out on the streets "protesting"... Actually what they want is some premature Christmas holidays... and they did it. They potest for the greek universities and they don't do nothing to protect and maintain them. The universities look like deserted bordels where the junkies hang around. Only thing they know is to protest... and they talk about development... So idiotic and hypocritic. They cause so much trouble to the working people by occupying the roads , the managed to inflict so much damage to so many business owners in the city center and they call them selves protesters. They are a bunch of hypocretes , idiots, undereducated (because they dont want to get education), and they are directed to do things that their immature minds cannot understand yet.
Yes the goverments the last 28 years are bad to say the least but they still go on voting. The goverment they vote for, is a mirror of the society, so that is what we deserve.
They attack and they swear at the police , but noone mentioned even in the news the 150 injured police men. Noone mentioned the 24year old police who died recently (after a year in a come) because of anarchist attack in a concert a year ago.
The anarchist patriots??? Commiting numerous homicide attempts with the use of molotof coctails? Destroying innocent people properties??? And getting away with it ofcourse.... Noone is too be harmed...
A bunch of cowards with covered faces that they cannot stand alone. They are a liability to society since they are bored to get to find a job... Many of these people are sons of rich families.... and all these years remain untouchables.... and loosers.
Noone made a protest for better roads and for more secure traffic infrastructure. More than 2000 people dead and many more injured every year.... And yet they drive without seatblts and worse they drive their bikes without helmets...
EDUCATION is the secret that most of Greeks don't have. We miss it in many levels. Still we don't understand the urgent need for education. And as a result we dont want to get. Is easier and better to protest and nagg... And again same kind of people are going to be elected in goverment from the parents of the protesters.... 15year old protesters...Is just sooo dissapoointing and scary since they are the future of poor Greece....

Posted by JK December 19, 08 11:58 AM
958.

#919 fg

My friend please stop pretending that you're a Greek who is supposedly saying what's good for us and what's not. No Greek would ever think of the stupid things you just said, not even the worst most extremist leftist in the country. "Dismantle the country", "no unity", "many foreigners", this kind of stupid dellusions is all by coincidence what some of bitter Balkan neighbours would wish us to happen. So it's not very hard to guess where you're coming from. Guess what, it's not gonna happen, and pretending to be a Greek in a public blog can only help at making you look silly. If I were you I would look at this protest as an example that if you had ever practiced in the past, you would have avoided a great deal of opression and poverty in your country, and you wouldn't have been acting like you did just now. So use this example for your future struggles, knowing it's much more successful than blaming all your problems and misery on your neighbours. Hate won't give you anything, only actions will.

Posted by Politis December 19, 08 11:58 AM
959.

949, go eat some freedom fries, you redneck!

Posted by European December 19, 08 12:11 PM
960.

I want tolerate to read one more time about spoiled brats and unjustified riots. In a european State where 28 bil are given to banks to manage through the economic crisis, when at the same time a young person with a university degree in Economics, as myself, cannot find a suited job, protest is the only thing left for me to do.
i just got an offer for a job that pays 700 euros (gross) for 60 hours of work in a week!!!!!!!! that's 20 hours more than legal! the worse thing is that i'm concidering taking it
Tell me if this is not a reason for me to protest on the streets along with all the other young people.Enough is enough

Posted by together we can take down the system December 19, 08 12:13 PM
961.

the only people who will suffer from this were the innocent people whose lives were ruined by the rioters after their stores and property were burned or destroyed.

Protest PEACFULLY if you want. That is good. If you harm someone or something, you should be shot. Shoot any rioters and the rest will stop rioting. If they don't, they are a detriment to society and should be killed anyway.

Posted by carl December 19, 08 12:20 PM
962.

the world revolution just began from greece!!!
stop now the wars for money!
stiop now fear of fake terrorism who made the goverments all over the world!!!
stop now and chase all the liers ministers!!! (killers)


everyone close now the stupid tv (mind desaster) boxes and let the stone and fire be your best friend

wake up!!!! its time for the revolution!!!!!!!!

Posted by manolo December 19, 08 12:21 PM
963.

@849.. maybe mate we use the word douleia for work, coz that's its real meaning in modern society... coz if u think about it u r still slave but to a different boss. Absolute freedom can never exist in true philosophical terms, and u will always be "slaving" away in a monetary system...

As for "When the Anarchists are allowed to paint their symbols on ancient marbles, when the misguided are allowed to "invade" the Acropolis and hang up their political symbols there, Greece's spirit is violated."

nah nah, Greece's spirit is not violated by these.. iIt's spirit is not the marbles, it's the ideology that managed to form today's western civilazation. It's also the relative freedom that it's people can enjoy today, and take to the streets and show their discontent, without being afraid they will get shot or bullied... or discrimated..or.. or...

Posted by jo December 19, 08 12:25 PM
964.

#948 Nikos, you can also add the so called 'πανεπιστημιακο ασηλο ' (academic inviolable refuge). This was meant to protect true academic freedom and has managed to turn the universities of Greece into hideouts for anarchist thugs that have transformed them into fire bomb factories. They run into these establishments 'of higher learning' hahaha, after trashing other people's property and livelihood and the Police cannot touch them. VERY 'PROGRESSIVE'!!!

Whatever happened to that great Hellenic truism: Χάθηκε το μέτρο! (we have lost the metre)

Posted by Damianos December 19, 08 12:38 PM
965.

@949. Yes God bless America .... the most superior form of (pseudo)culture , greed which leads us to a better world without disputes, inequalities etc . We NEED americans to dominate the world and protect us ....
America dominates the world and bring peace ( to Africa , Middle East e.g ) and order ( in my mind its sth like fascism ). As 947 said "Well the problem is democracy.... In the names of democracy the biggest crimes have been done. "

Posted by Average Person from anywhere December 19, 08 12:51 PM
966.

In picture #7, there is a guy with a black shirt and says EZLN!.. that suprises me because that letters are of one of the liberal movments here south of México.
Why is that shirt there on Greece?

Posted by Alejandro December 19, 08 01:04 PM
967.

Some of you have a very corrupted viewpoint of capitalism. What Americans fight to protect is not capitalism, but a form of socialism coupled with fascism. The only differences between America and Europe is the level of industry we achieved before the onset of socialism. Now, that socialism is leading us to our ruin. Many Europeans are proud of their socialistic ways. Be patient, as Americans will soon sit shoulder to shoulder with you, and the once proud, pseudo-capitalistic nation will sit broken, mired in corruption. Yes, corruption. For capitalism is the only system of governance that works for the people, and it's the only system of governance that has never been seen by man.

Posted by Alex December 19, 08 01:08 PM
968.

"Revolution" as in the revolution of the planets; the Greeks of all people knew about the dynamics of these interplaying magnetisms and gave us the symbolism of the Gods as they manifested in the nature of men. The rioting is a mechanical function of the human organism. I'm sure the 15-year-old boy is long forgotten now as these students manifest little more than blind rage. The riots will begin and end and finally the Greeks will all look upon their ruin, feeling like fools for trashing their own living environment. Consciousness is the only freedom; life was not meant to be an utopia. Deal.

Posted by Helios December 19, 08 01:19 PM
969.

If you want to blame something, blame the altruistic religions of the world that gave humans the idea that sacrificing themselves for all others is "virtuous" and "righteous". The worst crime any human can ever commit is to deny himself the pursuit of his own happiness. This basic principle is corrupted by the most prominent religions in the world. Nations like America, and every state in Europe, were built on the belief that to sacrifice yourself for the good of others is the most noble of deeds. Is this true? What life does a man have if he chooses to pursue the interests of someone else? He has sold himself out. This is the major flaw in the world today; not capitalism. Capitalism embraces the ability of man. Religions like Christianity and Judaism damn the ability of man. Capitalism is designed to honor a man who achieves. Christianity and Judaism are designed to attribute all achievements of man to an unseen and unheard being. What do you think happens to humans when they live in such an oppressive society as those based on altruistic belief systems? Socialism, altruism, Christianity, Judaism: these are all cut from the same cloth. Fighting in the name of any one of them is fighting in the name of all of them. These things are the reasons for the conflict and corruption that exists within and outside the borders of most countries.

When you take a look at the world around you, do your best to use reason and logic to determine if what you are seeing is the way things should be. You should notice that Americans are not capitalists, they are socialists, and they are corrupting the world. This is undisputable logic: Americans become increasingly more socialistic as the years and elections pass. But seeing as how Europe is socialist, this may seem like a contradiction to you. After all, Europe is mostly a peaceful place, is not? If there is anything you should learn in this life, it should be that if you ever find yourself confronted with a philosophical contradiction, check again. One of them is wrong. I imagine that if you take a look at yourselves, Europeans, you’d find that you’re calm as Hindu cows, and under the oppressive thumb of your own government and aristocracy.

I look at Greece and I feel bad for them. It is right that they should protest a corrupt government. It’s just very unfortunate that they would still embrace socialism, never knowing that socialism is what has caused the reasons for protest.

Posted by Alex December 19, 08 01:45 PM
970.

@949: Well is seems to me that your "superior" American mind is somehow a bit confused. World domination and world peace are two things that cannot stand together. To me, peace without freedom of speech and thought is useless Or perhaps when you say "peace" you mean violent enforcement of the strong's will to the weak. To me this is just called "law of the jungle". If this is it, then you are as cultivated as the lions in the jungle.
Do you honestly think that the American actions in Afghanistan, Iraq and Serbia, brought peace and order to those nations?? You either must be naive or ignorant.

PS: Be careful, as i recall in recent history, the WWII started because a nation got an illusion that they were superior and should dominate all the others. And in case you forgot, let me remind you that your ancestors fought and died against that, along with many others, back then. Please do not disgrace their sacrifice!

Posted by Inferior Uncultivated non American December 19, 08 02:17 PM
971.

To: Dime Skopje

My friend you don't even know where do you come from. Don't speak about Macedonia and greek fasists. You don't even know what these two words (Macedonia, Greece or Åëëáò) mean...
Mike, Athens

Posted by Mike December 19, 08 02:35 PM
972.

macedonia is greek!!!!!!!!!! go find your own history Skopje witch i dont thing you ll ever find....

Posted by apolonas December 19, 08 02:43 PM
973.

viva la revolution l'avenir appartient au jeunes de tous pays le jour ou ca va peter ....... même en France avec sarkozi
paix au jeune qui et DCD et fck la justice et le gouvernement grec

Posted by H4 December 19, 08 02:52 PM
974.

Any of you violent protest supporters been to Greece lately? Well if you have you'll know that the 20-30 something year old Greek is the laziest, mis-directed "young adult" in all of Europe, if not the world. They do nothing but spend time in the cafenio, smoke packs of ciggerettes, show off, and flirt. They dont work, they dont support themselves, they just party. They are using this poor boys death to release their frustration because these idiots have run out of credit on their credit cards and have been frustrated for a while now because they can't charge a frappe anymore and yiayia is broke from giving them all her lefta. NA!

Posted by Socrates Aristotalopoulos December 19, 08 03:01 PM
975.

to 949 -
And you are proving why the rest of the world loves America (Americans) so much.

You're nothing but an Arrogant American Male. I can only sit here and hope/pray you don't represent the "Average American Male". The rest of the world doesn't American apathy to "dominate" them.

Posted by Cherz December 19, 08 03:04 PM
976.

i don't know if anyone has the slightest intelligence to think that maybe the "anarchists" are not anarchists. They are cops. "undercover" cops, they blend with the crowds, start the riots and then they leave it to the masses.
the police was 100% absent at the places of destruction. the police preferred to throw israeli chemical gas to protesters, when at the same time, their "undercover" dogs caused the destruction. It is the easiest way to "divide and conquer".

p.s. there is footage showing numerous "known-unknowns" talking to police officers, being around policemen and arranging whatever they arranged before they started burning and destroying everything. all those facts are well known tactics of the police force in the "democratic" western and other "free" states.

Posted by Alex Moot December 19, 08 03:05 PM
977.

Dear 879,
Macedonia is for Macedonias
Macedonias are Greek people
so,Macedonia is for Greek people.
Learn some history first and then tell something about this issue. People like you believe what they where tought to believe , your government tries to manipulate you. But you can not understand it. So, before telling again something like that to other people,think better. because almost every country in the world is with our side.
H
You cannot hane something you do not own.

Posted by mary,Greece December 19, 08 03:10 PM
978.

I am a Greek studying now in the Netherlands. And I sau, if only I could be there, fighting for our country against all those thiefs, all those who support this corrupted system.

Those Greeks that feel sorry about glasse broken etc etc are so pathetic. Their moronic, hypnotized brains cannot distinguish the difference between ruin of the matter and the ruins in our soles and in our existence. The system just reproduces itself and you are just pons, you are the public opinion that gives no sheet about what is going on. If you had even just a little bit of conscience as a human being, you wouldn't have said all these stupidities.

@many US guys and all those who think that in Greece sth bad is happening:
- All these protests are the healthiest part of a democratic state. We all should worry, if people would react as in US or in England or in many other "western" countries, where you should ask for permission to protest.
- All the rights that "western" citizens have, were only gained after bloody riots, after protests and fights. If someone think that a boss, a government ... would gave/give sth for free, this means he/she is as stupid as (think sth really bad). Nothing is for free. Only if you fight for it, you can have hope.
- I am sorry about what I am going to say, but US has turned from a country that came up from a significant revolution to a country oppressor. The only thing US offers to humanity this moment is murders, even more murders, political assasinations, political instability, dictatorships. So, the next time you think that sth is wrong with Greece, just think you sheety things are in your own country, where everyone owns a gun, a murder or a rape happens every 30 secs, 30 million of people are homeless and 2 years ago you went to gas stations with guns to refuel you cars.
- Finally, and irrelevant to the topic, The US medical and educational system is just for crap and this is one of the reasons Obama was so popular.

Posted by A protester December 19, 08 04:04 PM
979.

Sorry for the syntactic mistakes, I was in a hurry.

Posted by A protester v2 December 19, 08 04:29 PM
980.

Some tired old politician was saying that the young demonstrators don't know what they want. They certainly know what they don't want:
1 Dishonest politicians
2 Corrupt businessmen
3 Doped athletes
4 Artists and journalists selling their services like prostitutes
5 Priests in shady business deals
and on top of all this austerity and UNEMPLOYMENT!
These are not Greek problems. They are global.

Posted by Hari Politopoulos December 19, 08 04:36 PM
981.

@974:

You say so stupid things, that the only thing that saves you, is that most of the guys reading this blog are not Greeks and know nothing abouts things in Greece.

Indeed, these kind of men you describe do exist. However, these guys usuall don't give a shit about nothing and they literally don;t care about anything. All those people are far from something like that. And I am telling this, because I was in similar protests about our educational system two years ago. These men you describe are the kind of people that have lead us to this situation.

@ those who support that capitalism and think US is sosialist country:

your capitalistic system collapses, because the capitalistic model has flaws by its creation. You cannot fix them, because either you will end up with not a capitalistic system or it won't be capitalism.

@966:
we know many things about the rest of the world, what is happening etc. We know about Oaxaca and the situation in Mexico and other countries in general.

Posted by A protester v3 December 19, 08 05:04 PM
982.

I read most of the blog.

My final conclusion is that the average salary in Greece is 650 euros, shop owners will be compensated by their insurance companies, 1 flower in Greece costs 99 euros, the protesters should wear bunny costumes, americans are idiots and #879 is constantly out of topic

Posted by oki doki December 19, 08 05:36 PM
983.

Ok...I'm Greek and seriously all these anarchists should be put in jail....you f*cking morons...why the f*ck are you burning the country down...Oh I know cuz you're all a bunch of uneducated morons who have no life...you have no respect for anything...you're lazy...you have never worked a day in your life...you are nothing like the generations before us when they were working like slaves in the fields...f*cking idiots...go get a f*cking job instead of thinking that life is just one big party...get a f*cking grip...you're an embarrassment to Greeks all over the world...You all make me sick because you're using this boys death as an excuse to riot...you should be ashamed of yourselves!!!!!! Grow the fuck up!!!! ....STOP F*CKING BURNING THE COUNTRY DOWN..

Posted by athena December 19, 08 05:37 PM
984.

As a photographer I am glad to see that one of the oldest cultures in the world can still produce outstanding quality photos. Even when in the grip of riots. The courage of the press photographers always amazes me.

This boys death was a terrible police murder. Maybe he was not being very law abiding, but who can honestly say they were crime free at 15? I certainly cannot. He did not deserve to be shot.

Good luck to the youths of Greece. The times they are a changing.

Posted by Matt Wilson December 19, 08 05:41 PM
985.

The new world order is already falling, people are starting to understand the EU is just meant to transfer control to the banking, resources and military industrial complex. They have seriously underestimated the will of the people for social evolution and justice.

Just be beware of false flags, do not believe without proof. 9/11 is a good example of how naively believing the governement ended up costing the life of 1.5 millions in Iraq and half as much in Afghanistan. The middle class of the world is under attack from all front and we must be cautious on how we work to trascend neo-capitalism.

Posted by Xill December 19, 08 05:49 PM
986.

I am sick and tired of all these supposed rebels!" WAKE UP, WAKE UP!!!" That's all they say... then you ask 'em "ok... what should be done". And they look at you blankly and scream again "WAKE UP!". You "rebels" have now idea what you are fighting for.You say "Don't listen to the Media (greek media) they are putting you to sleep!!" Well as far as I can see the Greek media has been FOR the riots and not against them. They have stripped the police and have supported the violence all through out these days. "The poor kids! the poor kids... they see no future (15 year old's mainly care only about today by the way) so they throw rocks at their neighborhood police station"... and if the police tries to arrest anyone the reporters and people around get mad!... Veeeeryyyy nice!
YOU WAKE UP!!! Stop living in your fairytale world and get a JOB! Don't waste your time drinking frappe with you mates and do something productive for you country. Don't burn it! GEEEZ!!

Posted by Protester to the "Protesters" December 19, 08 06:56 PM
988.

976 Yes we with our low intelligence we are wondering how the policemen start the anarchy acts and send around at least 100 of their own people to the hospital. Explain that with your higher intelligence...
Any comment about the 24year old policeman who died recently having spent a year in coma from the anarchists attack when he was injured during a concert?? Well his life was not so high rated i suppose , his mother and loved ones not so important in this case eeh???

978 We are so hypnotized? What about you ? Are you awake?
"all this protests you said is the healthiest part of our democratic state?...?? Because to support acts of fascism is the complete opposite of being the healthiest part of a Democratic state.
If you want to protest you don't go and destroy someone elses property. And you must be living in another world if you think that all that we worry is for some broken glasses. This is the stupidiest thing you said. I was walking this morning around Skoufa str (one of the areas that destructions took place) and what i saw was completely dissapointing. Businesses were closed down because of destructions, shops were empty, few people walking around (at an area which was full of people specially at Christmas time). People are currently (at this crises period) unemployed, business owners are broke because some idiots think that the revolution should come to change the world (and make it worse). And on the process the people you support pissed on the lifes of so many other innocent people who work hard for their living. Congradulations!! If someone has burned your house, destroyed your business and your properties , attempted to harm your loved ones you would say ohh thats ok , revolution and protest are to come first??? Is easy to write on your keyboard but is completely different thing to face the reality.
Who are you and these people to obstruct me from going out of my house and go to work??? Who are these people that have the right to destroy the things that a person works hard for??? Who gave them this right?? The freedom that democracy provides? Well these acts are far away from what Democracy is all about. And they dont deserve this freedom because they step on other people's freedom. So dont lecure us about souls and existence. Look in your own soul and existence, seek your own self development and quit the nagging and protesting tactics. If you want to change the system and protest you and the rest of people demand change when election time comes. Show your disgust then without harming others. This is what healthy democracy is all about. And this is the freedom that Democracy grands you to really protest and harm a corrupted government. Contribute to the common good. But ofcourse this is much more difficult task than go with a crowd and cause chaos to an already troubled country with its internal infrastructure. The only contribution that those protests make is to complete the destruction of an already more than bad education system. Not contribute to improve it not even to maintain it....! Just make it even worse. Congradulations again.
Bring the country to the verge of civil war, let politicians like the head of Syriza party and a bunch of lazy teachers and university professors to lead the misguided youth to the protests and support the anarchists with the destructive results that we all saw...! The politicians the teachers the professors that are getting payed from the taxes that Greek citizens pay to sit on their butts and protest..... Yes this is REVOLUTION , PROGRESSIVE REVOLUTION that contributes to a change for the common good of the country.

964 and 974 Well said!

Posted by JK December 19, 08 07:15 PM
989.

Mr/Ms protester (#979), let me take a guess on who you are:

Early 20's. When growing up, you thought those that studied and worked harder than you were just pawns. You had low grades at school and were incapable of entering a major university in Greece for studies. You convinced yourself that the reason you failed to get into a Greek university was that they are run by the "system" and the "system" is incapable of judging or being fair to you, the zenith of the human intellect at the center of the universe. You may have had a couple of summer jobs as a waiter but gave those up because they were too "low" for your high intellect. You spent more time on vacation in the summers that you did working, if at all.

Your parents felt that securing you a university placement in Holland would keep the hope alive; that you may turn into something good one day. They have regretted "taking care" of you and doing all your favors insted of "confronting" you to set you straight at a young age. Your parents were probably either clerks or public servants. Very unlikely that your parents had their own business. Now, they run around to find the money and to do most of your legal paperwork because such detailed logistics and dealing with the faces of the system at the various public offices, upsets you. They pray at night hoping that you will change, but are afraid to discuss it openly with you. They still fear your temper which can be exlosive, as everything around you bothers you and is there to "get you". You think the US is the source of all problems in the world even though, deep down, you know that your incompetence, being the result of years of inactivity and lack of work ethic and preparation, is actually the root of the problem.

Even though you are in a certain department at the university in Holland, you are not sure that you have selected the right department. It does not "represent" you very well. You have a tendency to quit studying the hard parts of your cources, thinking instead that hard work will not lead to anything more other than making you eventually a "part of the system".

How am I doing so far ? :-)

If I am somewhat right in my guess, please admit it. I have the feeling that you will one day change. You certainly are capable of changing. I can only hope that you do change earlier rather than later. Not so much for your own good. For mine. I don't want to live in a world that people think like you.

Posted by Nikos December 19, 08 07:21 PM
990.

the point is noone, named even "police" shall used a gun against anyone. This we call murder and who make it, assasin. If a police believe can hold one, it gives him a power that anyone never should have: the power of finishing someone´s live (murdering here is like "legal", because is actually accepted in the "last case") In order to change the point of view of police in the city, as change so many other things in the city, people goes out and try to make themselves hear by demonstrations, many different acts, and others burn cars and break shops. Is nothing new...every single revolution has its violent side, wich I don´t deffend though. Don´t get to the easy side of the opinion, and see only this. Do something yourself if u believe something is wrong. I must be paying my house for the rest of my life while my salary dosen´t rise? And every year food prices go even higher? And I don´t get any help from my goberment, which is smoking the money that should go to the citiziens? And when I am fed up and go to the street a police can easily kill me because someone believe that he can finish with my live, and give him a gun?
Something is not going logically here. Someone should say to this people that still believe that the youth is becomming crazy for the reason of nothing, that they are also fucked but that they have closed the eyes long time ago, maybe because human nature looks for the comodity of let them go, when their basic necesities are aparently covered. But, people, don´t be so selfish. Think who is comming after you. Realise that if so many people is ungry they might be some right. And that applies to every single issue. From economics to recicling.

Posted by neathina December 19, 08 07:25 PM
991.

"- Finally, and irrelevant to the topic, The US medical and educational system is just for crap and this is one of the reasons Obama was so popular."

You are indeed brainwashed from Mr. Moore. The American health system is the most advanced in the world without a question. Indeed the 5% homeless people cannot afford it. They go to the public hospitals where they get regular antibiotics instead of "special". Plus, of course, the illegal Latin Americans and Greeks that go there in thousands in spite of the US being so awfully horrible. Queens New York has the second population of Greeks in the world after Athens. I lived in the US, where the horrible system had a private doctor looking at me within 2 hours notice. A not so urgent operation is done within 2 days notice. I have lived in Scandinavia where the wonderful and free health system makes you (or your 1 y/o child) wait for a doctor for 6 hours in the emergency room, or wait for an operation for 1 year!!! Where doctors do not send you to the CT with extreme joints pains, because it is expensive to the state and they report on their expenses to the Big Brother.
As for the educational system, I would take a look at the university ratings, Nobel Prize winnings and research papers made. US is FAR ahead of everyone else. The universities of US are filled with European left wing socialist students that have no problem studying in the US, whilst proudly wearing the Che Guevara T-shirts, Arafat scarves and discussing the horrible US, while chewing on burgers and stealing everything this country can offer.
STOP offloading these piles of crap about a country that you have no idea about. Probably you think that burning a policeman alive will really make the world understand your problems with rent and dental expenses eh? Good luck with that. One can observe the majority of the demonstrants there – 18 y/o kids that will change their minds within 5 years. Meanwhile – it is just fun to have some action, lack of responsibility for smacking stuff, etc. Children…


Posted by Riot policeman December 19, 08 07:41 PM
992.

#974 is not a Greek, you can tell by his made-up fake Greek name. He's probably coming from one of these bitter ex-communist countries (hmm FYROM) that hate Greece blindly because of their government propaganda and think this is the time to hit us when we're down. Well, guess what, we're not down. We get knocked down but we get up again, you will never gonne keep us down.

Posted by Athenian December 19, 08 08:24 PM
993.

MAN, n. An animal so lost in rapturous contemplation of what he thinks he is as to overlook what he indubitably ought to be. His chief occupation is extermination of other animals and his own species, which, however, multiplies with such insistent rapidity as to infest the whole habitable earth and Canada.

AMNESTY, n. The state's magnanimity to those offenders whom it would be too expensive to punish.


ARISTOCRACY, n. Government by the best men. (In this sense the word is obsolete; so is that kind of government.) Fellows that wear downy hats and clean shirts — guilty of education and suspected of bank accounts.


POLICE, n. An armed force for protection and participation.

IMPUNITY, n. Wealth.

DICTATOR, n. The chief of a nation that prefers the pestilence of despotism to the plague of anarchy.

PLEBISCITE, n. A popular vote to ascertain the will of the sovereign.

JUSTICE, n. A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.

LAWYER, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.

PEACE, n. In international affairs, a period of cheating between two periods of fighting.

LIBERTY, n. One of Imagination's most precious possessions.

FREEDOM, n. Exemption from the stress of authority in a beggarly half dozen of restraint's infinite multitude of methods. A political condition that every nation supposes itself to enjoy in virtual monopoly. Liberty. The distinction between freedom and liberty is not accurately known; naturalists have never been able to find a living specimen of either.


REVOLUTION, n. In politics, an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment. Specifically, in American history, the substitution of the rule of an Administration for that of a Ministry, whereby the welfare and happiness of the people were advanced a full half-inch. Revolutions are usually accompanied by a considerable effusion of blood, but are accounted worth it — this appraisement being made by beneficiaries whose blood had not the mischance to be shed. The French revolution is of incalculable value to the Socialist of to-day; when he pulls the string actuating its bones its gestures are inexpressibly terrifying to gory tyrants suspected of fomenting law and order.

FUTURE, n. That period of time in which our affairs prosper, our friends are true and our happiness is assured.

Posted by fumanchu - ambrose bierce December 19, 08 08:37 PM
994.

REFORM, v. A thing that mostly satisfies reformers opposed to reformation.


PATRIOT, n. One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to those of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerors.

PATRIOTISM, n. Combustible rubbish read to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.

In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.

PROPERTY, n. Any material thing, having no particular value, that may be held by A against the cupidity of B. Whatever gratifies the passion for possession in one and disappoints it in all others. The object of man's brief rapacity and long indifference.


POLITICS, n. A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.

POLITICIAN, n. An eel in the fundamental mud upon which the superstructure of organized society is reared. When he wriggles he mistakes the agitation of his tail for the trembling of the edifice. As compared with the statesman, he suffers the disadvantage of being alive.


CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.

AGITATOR, n. A statesman who shakes the fruit trees of his neighbors — to dislodge the worms.

HYPOCRITE, n. One who, professing virtues that he does not respect, secures the advantage of seeming to be what he despises.

MINISTER, n. An agent of a higher power with a lower responsibility. In diplomacy and officer sent into a foreign country as the visible embodiment of his sovereign's hostility. His principal qualification is a degree of plausible inveracity next below that of an ambassador.

POVERTY, n. A file provided for the teeth of the rats of reform. The number of plans for its abolition equals that of the reformers who suffer from it, plus that of the philosophers who know nothing about it. Its victims are distinguished by possession of all the virtues and by their faith in leaders seeking to conduct them into a prosperity where they believe these to be unknown.

VOTE, n. The instrument and symbol of a freeman's power to make a fool of himself and a wreck of his country.

Posted by fumanchu - ambrose bierce December 19, 08 08:38 PM
995.

all these people dont understand there are laws in their country...as with the rest of the worlds democratic countries here in North America you only have to speak the words of rioting and chaos and you go to jail..its that simple...laws are not made to be broken...I understand Alexis death is tragic but at the same time you cant use his death as a catalyst to bring down a government or anything else you may desire...I also understand that here in N. America we are too passive and let things slide way too much but laws are laws and you cant throw rocks or molotov' at poliice and think its ok, here you get rubber bullets and simply go to jail...

Posted by A humble Greek in Canada December 19, 08 08:50 PM
996.

Malakes = anarchists

Posted by o malakas December 19, 08 09:02 PM
997.

I am an American citizen of Greek decent. I believe that the students are fighting for a worthy causes; corruption and unemployment being of the biggest concern. I believe that this will become a universal problem because of the greed of man. This characteristic is not unique to Americans and Greeks. Pay attention to the banking scams that are happening everywhere. This is affecting the middle class and the poor. We are tired of working so hard and not being paid accordingly. We are tired of not having good health insurance to help with medicine and with doctor visits.and hospital costs. Riots though do not work.

Posted by teacher who is concerned December 19, 08 09:27 PM
998.

ur in or u r out....f*ck passive activism

Posted by THANOS PAPASTERGIOU December 19, 08 10:17 PM
999.

I am in love with the girl from the 7th picture. Please, I give $100,000 in cash if you name her name and cell phone number. Try and help a broken Greek heart which lives at Glasgow...

P.S. Che wore a Bart Simpson t-shirt when he realized that his face will become a trademark...

Posted by Jack from LOST December 19, 08 10:28 PM
1000.

this is called civil disobedience! When a state does not abide by its obligations then the citizen should not abide by their civil duties. The sofa generation is much more sensitive and more ethical than the generation of greed, corruption and hubris
Congratulations kids!

Posted by vras1960 December 19, 08 10:59 PM
1001.

No more violance. Do not support extremist anywhere in the world. Fight for democracy, resist violance, stop the destruction now.

Posted by Joe December 19, 08 11:34 PM
1002.

I am proud that am Greek and this because among the many that offered Greeks in the world culture is democracy. Necessary and capable treaty on this constitutes the respect of laws from the side of citizen, but also the respect of the citizen from the side of the state. If one side is broken, then the other side will broken too, sooner or later. This happened now in Greece, that for an other time it shows in a drowsed in his prosperity world, that people should maintain his reflexives and when he realises that the state tramples his elementary individual rights to be lifted off and claims even go to a revolution if necessary.

Posted by Aristotelis Rigas December 20, 08 12:23 AM
1003.

After years of reluctantly going to my job, I am heartened that the people of Greece are finally fighting back in a way my country never will. Today Athens is the greatest city in the world and Exarchia is by far the greatest neighborhood. Keep up the struggle. Some of us in the US who are far from radical support you.

Posted by K. Johnson December 20, 08 12:26 AM
1004.

Americans are proud of their ignorance and are happy wage slaves, pleased that their wages are stagnating and their health insurance is growing increasingly more expensive--if they are lucky enough to have it. To be polite, you should humor their opinions, however regressive. That they feel the need to express their idiocy is a sign that they have adopted the cowboy arrogance of their leader. 60 years ago, America was a commendable country; now it is best ignored. Greece is the teacher.

Posted by Charles December 20, 08 12:43 AM
1005.

im from the U.S. and i have a little story to share. The republican national convention was held in St Paul Minnesota this september. Thousands showed up to protest the american system and the policies from those in power. A few bolder and courageous individuals decided to try to make actions similar to those greek protesters, but their efforts were swiftly ended by the police. The protests were basically parades being over-watched by the black uniformed riot police that lined the streets. Any deviation in pattern from the main parade/ protest people would be picked off and dragged away with ease. Any confrontation with the police the people were going to undoubtedly lose. The weapons, technology, tactics, brutishness, and pure egoism that the police had was enough to suppress any type of confrontation. During the final night of the protests the police were fed up and decided to put an end to the foolish spectacle that was considered a protest. I was there that last night and this is what i experienced. The 300 hundred or so people left (mostly youth) in a final push to get to the place where the actual convention was being held were met by a huge and threatening police force. Quickly the police surrounded the group of protesters, the police force matched the protesters in numbers and out-powered the group of people substantially. The police began to shoot tear gas and concussion grenades into the crowd. The people were herded onto a bridge and they all just laid down defeated. I tried to run, i ran in circles being chased by police as i was completely surrounded. I was tazered at one point while trying to get away, i managed to rip the tazer darts from my back and get back up and continue to run. I was being maced the whole time this was happening also. I was fairy upset at this point and i charged the police line broke through and tried to escape. I made it about 5 city blocks before i was hunted down by a gang of police. In the square of an apartment complex i was beaten relentlessly. I was then arrested and taken to jail, where i was thrown into solitary without any contact for at least 24 hours. Finally i made my phone call and was able to get out. Im not saying people were apathetic, or cowards, or anything of that sort. People made a legitimate effort to express their anger towards the U.S. government, but the police force was just overwhelming. I realize now why many remain complacent in the american system, there is a lot of fear. I only attempted to run from the police when they began to shoot grenades at me, and i was beaten, tazed, maced, and jailed. I did not provoke the police at any point and neither did any single person in that protest or crowd, and yet we were met with a massive amount of violence. The american powers have too much of just that, Power. Any resistance is quickly stopped, and unless people are ready to face this violence there will be no uprising or quasi-revolution like the greeks. America exists in a state of fear and dark energies, ignorance and apathy is wide spread and the people who can make a difference and want to either are; too fearful or put their energies into the false hope of change that is being sung throughout the land.

Posted by Benji the Anonymous December 20, 08 12:46 AM
1006.

i livw here in f*cking grece,the word that describes it is 'CHAOS' its a dead country....the goverment isnot a goverment.

Posted by an greek protester,george December 20, 08 01:33 AM
1007.

Keep it up guys, Justice is on your side; therefore you WILL win!!!

I wish the best of luck, from Armenia.

Posted by Anonymous December 20, 08 01:54 AM
1008.

If they really wanted to get the worlds attention they would have burned down the Acropolis!

Posted by streaker December 20, 08 02:22 AM
1009.

Gia ton poutso eiste oloi.............kai oi men kai oi de !!!!

Posted by aris@hotmail.com December 20, 08 03:00 AM
1010.

hasta la victoria siempre -we fight for the future that they want to steal from the humanity globalize the resistance -let us instigate the revolt down with the system.

Posted by aris velouxiotis December 20, 08 03:37 AM
1011.

I believe that this generation of young people do not get it that the world has changed,that they have to work much harder than the previous generations in order to earn money and buy their expensive cars,watches,expensive cloths and shoes.All these young people that say they fight for a change,if their parents stop giving them money and pay everything for them they will realize what means to go to work to earn your life expenses.Stop going to the cafes and clubs,stop thinking but by going to university and spend your parents and grandparents money you are going to have immediately what other generations sacrificed and earned over many years.STOP DESTROYING GREECE IS NOT ONLY YOURS.

Posted by Dimitra Xiromeriti December 20, 08 03:56 AM
1012.

You better shut-up with this activism, Your protesting for nothing, financed left-wing extremist and anarchist groups are just finding new excuses to destroy and loot. It's a pleasure to see young students and teachers and the civic society protest and getting involved in political decisions and high-ranked corrupt politics, but this left-wing no brain and anarchist punks are making me sick.

Posted by Ciprian Stoica December 20, 08 04:35 AM
1013.

TO Steven.
MACEDONIA IS BULGARIAN!!! NOT GREEK!!!

Posted by Momcho December 20, 08 05:14 AM
1014.

The anarchists are "fighting" against the "values" which spare their lives. If we were living according to their "values", most of them would be shot (since there wouldn't be any "archi" to protect their lives).

I think this is funny....

Why don't you protest for the environment? Isn't it a murder? Why not for the national roads where not 1 but hundreds are killed every year? Why not protesting against violence -not only police violence? Why not protesting for private schools, realising that all the money spend in preparation (frontistiria) for the "free" university are much much more than the money you need for studing abroad / or in a private institution? Why don't you protest for good books, good teachers, real education? Why are you buying everything? Don't you have any critical mind?

You also say you protest against the 700euro. By destroying the toursm (our country's first source of income), shops (making the government pay for damages) etc. don't you understand that things will only become worse ?

Why don't you find a smarter way to protest? Don't you have any fantasy?

Posted by Nicolas67 December 20, 08 06:27 AM
1015.

EVERYONE HAVE OPINION FOR EVRYTHING ,BUT NOT ONLY IN GREECE WHO APART BY POLITICIAN WHO CREATE A MOOD WITH OUT BASE... WASHBRAINER AND ANARCHST FIND THE PATH TO SHOW AROUND THE WORLD DOES NOT HAVE ANY OF CULTURE AND THE SAME TIME ...NIHILISM TRY TO PROVIDE A VIOLENCE BEHAVIOR AS NORMAL ATTITUDE. FOR ENYONE IS IMPORTANT INTEREST ;(IN GREECE IS IMPOSIBLE TO FOLLOW NIHILISM AND BEHAVIOR LIKE THIS BECAUSE HADE HAVE AND WILL BE HAVE THAT WHO FEW UNDERSTANT... CULTURE)...IN GREECE NO ONE HAVE RIGHTS WHEN DETEND FOR FREE SPEECH AND RIGHTD BECAUSE DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO ACT AND THE SAME OVER WORLD(ITALY,SPAIN,FRANCE,AND SO LONG). CRISIS AND kURAFEXALA... EVRYTHING HAVE BEEN START FRON THIS POINT....GREECE... AND AFTER ALL COME TO TAST....IN GREECE KNOW THE MOST OF THINGS SURROUND THE WORLD BUT NOTHING INTEREST ABOUT... BECAUSE THE TRUE IN NOT OUT THERE.... IS INSIDE OF ANYBODY
GREECE 4 EVER FREE!2010

Posted by MRON December 20, 08 06:33 AM
1016.

EVERYTHING IS FINE AGAIN!!!!!
EVERYTHING HAS STOPED NOW AGAN!!!!!!!
AND NOW YOU WILL GO BACK TO YOUR JOBS PAYING YOUR BILLS AND LOANS QIETLY WITHOUT ANY THOUGHT IN YOUR MIND, THAT MAYBE NOT EVERYTHING IS OK, NOT EVERYTHING IS HOW THEY TOLD YOU.
STAY IN YOUR FILTHY DREAM YOU BUILDED FOR YOUR VANITY, THAT SLOWLY SLOWLY CRUBLES DOWN ON THAT RECKLESS FOUNDATIONS ITS BUILD ON.
I AM FREE AND I WILL REMAIN FREE!!! DO YOU?

Posted by PANOS STEFANIDES December 20, 08 06:50 AM
1017.

So, with my poor English I tried to read everything's written in this page and with my poor English will try to say my opinion. Starting from the comments about the "great super dynamic power" of America, allow me to say that you are not as powerful as you think. Your own country attacks it's own symbols so you will be just another lamb following your master. Your economy (and almost everything) is based on other's countries resourses, or am I wrong? Do you have your own tradition? The original Americans aren't the Indians? Isn't Europe a very good financial resourse of yours? You want to conquer the world, but you have only the equipment. At least WE have the brains, Try to do some IQ tests to see your level and stop feeling like a god!!!
And for the story, people haven't stop thinking or fighting for Alexandros. Yes, he was the excuse and it brought out all the problems we have in Greece. Is that wrong? It's a start. It may have no result after all -since we have a corrupted system- but at least we have tried to be heard! Ancient Greece has nothing to do with the modern one, but we still have kept some of our spirit. Personally I'm not proud of being a Greek citizen, but I'm very, very proud of having the Greek spirit alive in me....
And in our days, is so pitty to read such racist and fasistic comments as some of you wrote... Maybe that's why this world goes from bad to worse. There were comments with different opinion than mine, but at least written properly.

Posted by RoTTeN December 20, 08 06:53 AM
1018.

I do not understand how the hell Macedonia has anything to do with all this! I live in Greece, I have a job, I went to university. I do not have a future, I can not have dreams. I am 30 years old and I am waiting for my future bad life. I have friends in Paris, Edinburgh, New York, Brussels and they believe the same thing. This murder by the police was just the occasion not the reason for this riots. The riots are happening because we live in a country (in a world) that power is everything. Foolish macho men derive their power from guns. The church becomes richer and richer gathering assets with the help of the government. A financial crisis is upon us so we will probably lose our jobs or we will never get jobs while everything is going to get more and more expensive. They burn down forests and then sell the land. So? Are idiots. You are talking about the "Greekness" or the "Bulgariness" of Macedonia? And if what you ask is given to you, what do you think would change? Don't you understand that you are pones to a game the politician want you to play. If we people did no care about all these things we are arguing about we would be undefieted. I read you people saying this is the greatest country in the world or that. What the hell is this? Are you completely stupid? This party and that party! Doesn't each and everyone of us want a better life and a better future than the one given to us? Stop all this you fools. Stop it right now! We need education. A real one. We need to be active with eyes and minds wide open. We need not to forget. We need not shallow down what the media is feeding us. Use your heads. I know its tiring and we live in a world that everything must be easy, but do it. Do it anyway for your own sake.

ps Because I believe one image equals a thousand words I would say to you guys who made those picture, thank you.

Posted by Anna December 20, 08 07:00 AM
1019.

dahora!

Posted by Juarez December 20, 08 07:48 AM
1020.

@1013: No man, Macedonia belongs to the Solomon Islands!!!

Posted by Jack from LOST December 20, 08 07:49 AM
1021.

These pictures show clearly that the new generation is awake and ready to fight for Democracy, because Democracy is the priceless ideal that EVERY generation HAS to fight for. Nothing in our lives is for free.

To Mr. Constantin FABRIKEZIS (comment #916) I'd like to say that he did well and left Greece and he will do even better if he doesn't return again. We don't need "Greeks" like him here. One has to respect his country and fight in every way he can to make things better.
Also I would like to say that in the last 24 years that he is abroad, more than a dozen unarmed civilians have been murdered by policemen which never have been punished for their crimes.

Posted by Sokratis Aristovoulidis December 20, 08 07:59 AM
1022.

to all you people of this planet ...
are you satisfied of the conditions we are living ???
you dont care for your children and grandchildren ...
what will be your inheritance to them ???
pollution, poverty, hunger, war and death ???
we re not here for that shit ...
right now it s not a matter between anarchists and cops ....
it becomes a matter of the few "masters of war" (politicians or corporations) against the many (all of us)...
so lets get our shit together ... unite and fight against THOSE who steal our lives and dreams
(while we just sitting and watching)...

to all those who re talking from safety right now ...
just a reminder ... the day THEY will turn against you is not that far ...
but there will be nobody left to stand for you !!!

(you believe it is so difficult for the goverments to feed the african children ...
than to built bombs??? i dont believe you need more proof than that to understand ...
that they dont give a shit about us ... we re just their worthless puppets)

i m not an anarchist (surely i m not a fascist either)...i m just another citizen of this planet
that woke up late enough and got angry with the situation.

people protest for your rights (no violence)
just let EM know you very aware of THEIR dirty plans.

power to the people!!!

Posted by fumanchu December 20, 08 08:33 AM
1023.

to momcho
i'm sorry
but f*ck you.
=)
macedonia is bulgarian
yeah riiiiight.
oh, and this is SO relevant to the boy who's killed and the riots in greece. SOOOOO relevant.

Posted by Loulou December 20, 08 08:42 AM
1024.

Greece.
What a country. I am proud being Greek. Proud because even we are in a complete mess for 30 years now we are happy and we live happy. Most of the young people are unemployed and parents still support them economicaly. Old people dont have money to feed themselves. Educational system is crap. Media are worthless listening like everywhere. Government's hobby is scandals and cops are killing tennagers.
That is a tiny summary of the situation in my country.
Violence is not a solution. But at least people are out in the streets for 2 weeks now and I am happy that my people are not so hypntized like some other countries and they are fighting for this situation that was caused from the governments in recent years.
Keep fighting. Fight for a least lying world.

ACAB

Posted by st. December 20, 08 08:52 AM
1025.

EVERYONE tries to reform/ improve /change others (people economy and/or political systems etc.)...
who DARES to admit ones own shortcomings and reform himself?

Posted by lou December 20, 08 09:43 AM
1026.

"Our democracy is destroying itself because it abused the rights of freedom and equality, because it taught the citizens to consider insolence a right, lawlessness as freedom, the audacity of words as equality and anarchy as bliss...."

Isocrates (436-338 B.C.)

Posted by Dennis Pramas December 20, 08 10:33 AM
1027.

Type your comment here... Greeks have always found fault with something. It is their nature. These young people who rioted said they wanted "their demands"met. but do not give a coherent voice to these demands.
These young people are spoiled, rotten brats who wish to go to University for 8 years to expand their horizons and to sit and smoke cigarettes and drink their coffees at the bistros and decry the world around them. Of course, the communist professors who have taught them, have done their work well. The only conclusion will be seen at a later time when their world crumbles around them.
IkIkiIkkk

Posted by Ikarian descent December 20, 08 11:29 AM
1028.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HANG THE POLITICANS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY, AND THE CORPORATIONS, DRINK OUR BLOOD EVERY DAY !!!!!!!!!!! 800 EURO A MOUNT - IS IT POSSIBLE TO LIVE ? I HAVE TO WORK 2 JOBS TO HAVE A LIFE !!!!! VIVA LA REVOLUTION !!!!

Posted by MARIO - GREECE December 20, 08 01:13 PM
1029.

I am not Greek. I am Mexican-American. I do not believe in Anarchy, but I do believe in Revolution. Revolutionary change is required in todays world, not just because it sound like a good idea that we would all like to believe in, but because we have given so much power to greedy men. Greedy men who do not care for life, only selfish fulfillment. The history I have known may not seem relevant to some Greeks, I fear your anger of any "American Tourist" taking interest in your part of the world may be taken as a selfish fulfillment of my own, not so. I can only offer experience. I have lived through the Los Angeles Riots. We shook the city's walls I agree with needed uprising, a government has to learn its place every now and then, we are not sheep. They need to remember that WE put them in power, and if corrupt, we must take that power away from them. Perhaps American's should stop and listen to what the rest of the world is fighting for, if we could only take a moment from our egoistic and greedy lifestyle to give a damn about our true rights. In the L.A. Riots, we disturbed the power and I wonder every day why we protest Vietnam, but not the current wars. I am not Greek, you are not American, I pray Revolutionary change infects us all. As our President Elect promotes needed Change, change first has to start at home.

Posted by Madgenetics December 20, 08 01:16 PM
1030.

Why don't we meet at soc.culture.greek and talk about what must change and how? To my opinions it's economics and human rights and we have lost on both of them out. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Europe and the US moving with every year passing towards a police state. We all know that 911 was a setup and the London underground bombings too. I live in Finland and the police can search your house without a search warrant. They can manipulate evidence and get away with it. I am Demetrenos and PsychopathSean on Youtube but to get real links and info Usenet is better.

Posted by elGreco December 20, 08 01:26 PM
1031.

I wish the people of America could feel as passionately about their beliefs as the Greek protesters do. The American apathy disgusts me. Granted, this is a little extreme, but you have my wholehearted support. I have much respect for people who can come together and stand up for their rights. Good luck.

Posted by Heather December 20, 08 01:28 PM
1032.

fighting is the only way against the old men who destroy our feature and our life...we want good education and jobs with good money and no with 700 euros in a month..ARE WE WRONG???

Posted by linus from greece December 20, 08 01:30 PM
1033.
Posted by Peace December 20, 08 01:32 PM
1034.

study history, it is cyclical, capitalism, to communism, back to capitalism, everyone wants low taxes, then they don't have services,then they get services and pay high taxes. there has to be a balance. the havenots think more gov't is better but it's not. the haves want little gov't, too little gov't no oversight. BALANCE, BALANCE, BALANCE but some gov'ts are overwhelming. the politicians are out of touch. P.S. as Pastor Dennis says "ALL PROBLEMS ARE LEADERSHIP PROBLEMS"

Posted by THOMAS COSTANZA December 20, 08 01:34 PM
1035.

Seriously, this is beyond spoiled brat syndrome.
These people have no concept of facts, no ideas of their own, cannot put into words that which they really desire, which is only to have someone else make their lives better. So young greeks think that lighting police men on fire is a good way to have someone else take care of their problems? So you have a university education, you have your own car, you have your own flat, you own expensive clothing, but still you want more.
This is the unfortunate result of too much freedom and too little real education. Discontented youths who cant stand on their own two feet, still need mommy and daddy (the state) to take care of them.

Posted by will December 20, 08 01:43 PM
1036.

To all those who think burning down malls and killing police officers is a good way to get a job or solve unemployment... you must be a moron.

Why do people no longer think on their own? They think the solution to everything is violence. No minds of their own. The "government" is either the problem or the solution to all your problems. Heres a piece of news for you: there is no government, there is only you and your own inability to stand independently. Grow up, and solve your own problems. Without harming others.

Posted by till December 20, 08 01:54 PM
1037.

We are inside the future! this is the end of capitalism. we have to walk a long way but we are strong,we are fighting allover Greece,we need more..we want everything for everyone. Greece is writing history once again. Follow us...to TAKE OUR LIFES BACK!
The rebellion that lit up this miserable world with its flames, continues!
Immediate release of all who are being detained by the police.
Solidarity with everyone facing persecution.
Solidarity with everyone around the world who uses any means to spread the

Posted by Anonymous December 20, 08 02:05 PM
1038.

Politis I am greek even if you don't like it! Eimai ellhnas gke-gke;
I believe the best solution is Greece to split-up into separate countries-states based on political-cultural differences. These states will be more homogeneous in all respects (except maybe from the one that will host the 2-3 million illegal or not immigrants who are very diverse racially and culturally) and things for these states will be better. I know Politis that you might not like that but we are a lot of people supporting this idea. Look at the people in Crete or in the Ionian Islands. There are also people in Macedonia (including me) that want that in order to secure the historical heritage from the FYROMians (aka western bulgarians) because some other greeks from some other parts do not give a sh.t about my homeland. So, best solution is dissolution of Greece as we know it and the creation of smaller but more homogeneous states.

Posted by fg December 20, 08 02:05 PM
1039.

@ number 989

You hit the nail on the head. I salute you sir!

Posted by zill December 20, 08 02:09 PM
1040.

@1027: Y O U A R E R I G H T B U T U F O R G O T 1 T H I N G: I N 1 0 Y E A R S F R O M N O W T H E S E P R O T E S T E R S W I L L B P A R T O F C A P I T A L I S M...

Posted by Jack from LOST December 20, 08 02:41 PM
1041.

Im starting to think that all these fanatical losers who want to demolish the state should just have their way. Let all the murderers out of the prisons and back into the neighborhoods. Dissolve the police force and let people battle each other over their petty disputes. Remove the government and let roads and schools and services like running water and electricity and the post office fall into disrepair and dissolve. Let street gangs take over the power and decide what the true meaning of "justice" is. Idiots.

They have no imagination. Think for yourselves! Dont be "revolutionary sheep", following the mob.

Posted by zill December 20, 08 02:53 PM
1042.

I am a 41 yr old Greek/english businessman with 3 children, living in Greece. I confess to leaning to the left and extreme left at that. How does that go with being a businessman? God knows... And this is not the place to go into the subject anyway.
Many times during my life here I have felt the need to leave this country and seek a better life elsewhere. The level of corruption in Greece, is such as to dishearten even the most cynical on occasion. I am not naive enough to think this does not go on anywhere else, but here it is so blatant, it is disgusting. And it doesn't look as if it will ever change... That is why I think the riots are good. Because in our case the violence may just be required. I sincerely wish they could get rid of all the politicians. that would be astep in the right direction...

Posted by Peter Papageorgiou December 20, 08 03:02 PM
1043.

THIS IS NOT A REVOLUTION IS ANCIENT TRAGEDY , IS AN ACT AGAINST THEMSELVES , THE PEOPLE OF OUR COUNTRY AND THE COUNTRY ITSELF. AND FOR SURE IS NOT AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT.
FIRST THING FOR THE REGENERATION IS TO GET EDUCATION , AND BY STAYING AWAY FROM SCHOOL THIS CANNOT BE ACHIEVED. HAVING UNIVERSITIES WHICH ARE NOT MAINTAINED AND DEVELOPED BUT INSTEAD THEY ARE ASYLUM OF JUNKIES AND ANARCHISTS THEN TRUE EDUCATION AND DEVELOPMENT CANNOT BE ACHIEVED. WE ARE MAKING OUR OWN DESTINY AND FUTURE. THE CORRUPTED GOVERNMENT ARE THE RESULT OF ELECTIONS NOT FROM EXTRATERRESTRIAL PEOPLE BUT GREEK PEOPLE. DEMAND CHANGE, SEEK CHANGE FOR THE BETTER, DONT ACT BY ENFORCING CHANGE FOR THE WORST.

Posted by Anonymous December 20, 08 03:12 PM
1044.

Alexis Grigoropoulos has become a hero and part of the greek modern culture.
A Hero never dies!!!
I wanted to say that mentally I support you in your fight against fear and that you have set an example for others to see and follow.
good luck and God bless you and your country

Posted by ephie December 20, 08 03:38 PM
1045.

I love how all of you "What happened to all the order? Wheres the stability?" and generally how people in my oppinion lack "real education", are the probably the people who are pro war in the middle east, stuck up hypocritical conservatives and New Right bullies. You are the ones who are out of touch with everybody, just like the politicians. These people wouldn't be flaming up in anger if YOU believed in a stronger state, and higher taxes to help educate these people. "No to state invervention" is your motto, but as soon as you silly little narcissists with your own house, your big pay cheque and your happy safe families realise that not everythings just as peachy for everyone else as it is you, you call for more authority. Right wing economics and politics isnt practical or humane

Posted by Anonymous December 20, 08 03:48 PM
1046.

hello from greece to you all. i just want to say this:
you all certainly have the right to your opinion, with some of you i agree, with others i couldnt disagree more.
maybe you should enter some greek newspapers sites and learn the true facts.
matt wilson i couldnt agree with you more, the death of this kid is A TERRIBLE POLICE MURDER!
i am glad that people in greece, young people in greece, are finally starting to protest about all these things that make all of us dissapointed and so uncertain about our future....
and i also would like to say this.:
THE INFORMATION ABOUT THE DEATH OF THE 25 YEAR OLD POLICEMAN IS A LIE. the guy is alive. still under close medical attention but ALIVE. dont believe everything you hear....

Posted by marianna December 20, 08 05:30 PM
1047.

when did this become class-warfare? to pretend like these people are RIOTING because of a dead 15 year old boy they didn't know is pathetic to the utmost degree.

i fully support civil disobediance, but to riot and loot, attempt to immolate police officers and burn down businesses, well there is no excuse for that and you know it.
start a civil war ONLY if you're willing to finish it.

Posted by rummy December 20, 08 06:00 PM
1048.

Its time for the police to strike, Police should not report to work and let the students run the country.

Posted by the Greek December 20, 08 06:23 PM
1049.

could some Greek person put some links from greek sites related to the situation and the rioting??
I'd love to read the first hand story rather than some english speaking versions please (no offence meant here)

Posted by whoknows December 20, 08 06:33 PM
1050.

If you want to change the corupt goverment you don,t do it by burning the property
of innocent people. you do it with your VOTE
STOP VOTING BLINDLY FOR THE COMA ( political party ) STOP BEEN BRAIN
WASHED BY THE DEMAGOGS ( POLITICIANS ).
WHEN YOU SEE A GOOD CANDIDATE VOTE FOR HIM DONT LOOK FOR THE
POLITICAL PARTY.
Also stop asking mam and dad and yiayia for money get of your FAT ASS and go
to work .

Posted by george December 20, 08 06:42 PM
1051.

We are the Greeks
We are coming from the most inner depth of the History
We changed the world and we have the right to change it once more
As they are stil opressed and opressors in this world we keep the right to fight the opressors
We made the same with the ansient Persians, the Romans, The Othomans, the Nazis, and now the New World Order.
We give the lessons of Democracy and Civil Rights
And Our Democracy is not the Parliament but the Agora!

Posted by New Alexander December 20, 08 06:45 PM
1052.

"in the name of demmocary and security....
the world best fairy tale was destroyed.
not when the christmas tree was burned down,but when your democracy gave its last stinky breath to "gregory" on the 6th of december.the rioters is its remaining healthy part,like the short living of the brain seconds after the body is medically dead.try not to judge but to understand, the riots may fade,because mass media frightens people in order not to demonstrate, but our spirit won't.greece gave its present to the world :the vital remind that people wont tolerate much more of these crup,they are awake and they have the power. from spasmodic reaction to action....amen"

beaware of the brain you cold hearted corps


Posted by @ December 20, 08 07:11 PM
1053.

Sweetpies #1051 "New Alexander"
How old are you??
Judging by your brave words, I hope you are under 15.
I cross my hands that... I mean, boy, if you are not, you are totally freaking me out!
and once more the air becomes thick with teargas. I inhale unwillingly but end up feeling rather high; I start to improvise, reciting satiric poetry. Young girls are laughing. A black man says "hello sister". I feel sick. I am queen Lear. I need to speak on TV. I must assume the role of prime minister. I must address the nation. But noone knows I can do that, noone will invite me or trust me with that function.

Posted by M. C. December 20, 08 07:34 PM
1054.

Conservatism is making a comeback all over the world. Common sense is on the way back. A 5$ watch tells the time the same as a 2000$ watch. You ingrates think sh*t should be handed to you and when you dont get it its someone else's fault. Oh well, good luck burning down your country. It wont work though your wasting your time. The right has always been stronger than the left and always will be. Why? They stand for something. And when they have had enough you guys are going to realize how rough life can get.

Posted by Keith December 20, 08 10:19 PM
1055.

The rioters cannot have a focused agenda, it would be too middle class, too aspirational for the masses to buy into.

Wikipedia on Orbitals -
The culture within the Orbitals is typical for the philosophic-hedonistic slant of all the Culture. They are also prime examples of the Culture's post-scarcity society, for within some physical limits, all material wishes can be fulfilled (or will be fulfilled by the Hub on request).

Citizens can choose to withdraw into large areas of primal (if ultimately manufactured) nature or into their own spacious homesteads, and tend not to live in cities unless they prefer the increased activity and the proximity of friends.

Posted by Make Mortgages Illegal December 20, 08 11:16 PM
1056.

Beautiful photos and solidarity from Ireland, we'll be joining you soon no doubt.

Posted by Fitz December 21, 08 12:21 AM
1057.

If multiple countries protested peacefully it would make a real difference. anything less will be dealt with. violence will only bring more laws and higher taxes to pay for the damage. every time there are riots, they use it to learn from.

Greece could easily be handled no mater how out of control the kids get. they are just sitting back and letting people get their frustrations out........no real solutions are coming. they'll just play the game they have always played.

The economic situation is worldwide and the bankers are to blame, period. look what happened to Argentina. they buy up smaller banks and consolidate assets, give out loans that cannot be paid back, buy up infrastructure, raise taxes, outsource as many jobs as possible.

It

Posted by brad December 21, 08 01:31 AM
1058.

help your friends, harm your enemies. here's to the bravery of the greek